Good FREE website with Omaha starting hand info?

[Deveroast78]

I've read Super System II but found the PLO section fairly vague and a bit proscriptive in terms of starting hand requirements in Omaha. Do any of you know of a website that has a few paragraphs and a kind of chart that assigns a relative value of certain hands preflop in Omaha? I understand that there are no huge favorites but I would like to refine my hand values so I know what to enter a pot with and what not to. Also, any random tips you folks have to post would be greatly appreciated as well. Thank you in advance

[Ribbo]

It's extremely dangerous to think of omaha hands as rankable.
What you need to do is start thinking about hands in terms of how the 4 cards show synergy with each other.

Omaha is a game where the hand rankings are so much closer together, and indeed the value of a hand increases or decreases depending on the other hands in play.

Sometimes 6h 7s 8h 9s will be the best hand in omaha 3 way against two people with AA. Sometimes it will be screwed over big time by 7h 8s 9h Ts.

Just asking for rankings doesn't help your game too much. What you play should be dependant on the players around you.

[Elrazor]

dont know of any but i know the biggest leak in my game when i started was playing stuff like QQxx-TTxx etc for a raise - problem is if you hit you might hit second trips, and these cards on flops make an awful lot of wraps for people. flops you are happpy with are ones like Q72, and you are never getting paid in this spot as everyone will have missed, so your implied odds are shot.

Just play the really obvious hands outlined in SS, and also remember your position is almost if not more important than the cards you are holding

[Ribbo]

You make no sense. You say that position is more important than the cards you are holding, then you say you wont play QQ to TT.

[Elrazor]

i didnt say i wouldnt play QQ-TT, but i would stear clear of hands like that in hindsight when i first started learning the game.

As your game evolves you realise that these hands have some value in the right circumstances, but as you correctly pointed out, you cant just read a chart of starting hands and say 'always play QQ72, it has +ev' as you would want to assess a number of in-game factors before making a decision to play/pass a hand like that in Omaha

[Elrazor]

ah and guess what! i look on the 'Ribbo stats aces' thread and you have a leak with TT!! why? cause you lost a couple of big hands! why? cause when you flop a set, it will either be up against a higher set, or as Tens are the most common used cards for a straight, you will get busted by a monster wrap!!

[Ribbo]

Incorrect, one was a coin flip which didn't involve my Tens.

*** TURN *** [Js 5s 6d] [Kd]
Ribs: checks
ROXY24: bets $847
Ribs: raises $743 to $1590 and is all-in
ROXY24: calls $743
*** RIVER *** [Js 5s 6d Kd] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ribs: shows [Ks Jc Th Td] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
ROXY24: shows [Ac 7d As 3s] (a straight, Three to Seven)
ROXY24 collected $4027 from pot

One was this total fail of an opponent shoving a flush draw on the turn...

OMAHA POT LIMIT ($10/$20)
Table 'Cremona III' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: ACTIONJACK1 ($2774.50 in chips)
Seat 2: SuicideBomb ($7715 in chips)
Seat 3: joodang ($2017 in chips)
Seat 4: Ribs ($3466 in chips)
Seat 5: saphire1 ($1920 in chips)
Seat 6: OPETTAJA ($3386 in chips)
Seat 7: jajejijoju ($1941 in chips)
Seat 8: virus1975 ($3049.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Cabbagehead ($5258 in chips)
ACTIONJACK1: posts small blind $10
SuicideBomb: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ribs [Th Tc Ad Kh]
joodang: folds
Ribs: calls $20
saphire1: calls $20
OPETTAJA: calls $20
jajejijoju: raises $40 to $60
virus1975: calls $60
Cabbagehead: folds
ACTIONJACK1: folds
SuicideBomb: folds
Ribs: calls $40
saphire1: calls $40
OPETTAJA: calls $40
*** FLOP *** [7s Jh Ts]
Ribs: checks
saphire1: checks
OPETTAJA: checks
jajejijoju: bets $60
virus1975: calls $60
Ribs: raises $340 to $400
saphire1: folds
OPETTAJA: folds
jajejijoju: calls $340
virus1975: folds
*** TURN *** [7s Jh Ts] [3c]
Ribs: bets $1187
jajejijoju: raises $294 to $1481 and is all-in
Ribs: calls $294
*** RIVER *** [7s Jh Ts 3c] [5s]
Ribs said, "nh"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ribs: shows [Th Tc Ad Kh] (three of a kind, Tens)
jajejijoju: shows [Ac 6s 4h As] (a flush, Ace high)
jajejijoju collected $4149 from pot
Ribs said, "good raise"
jajejijoju said, "soz"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4152 | Rake $3
Board [7s Jh Ts 3c 5s]
Seat 1: ACTIONJACK1 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: SuicideBomb (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: joodang folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Ribs showed [Th Tc Ad Kh] and lost with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 5: saphire1 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: OPETTAJA folded on the Flop
Seat 7: jajejijoju showed [Ac 6s 4h As] and won ($4149) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: virus1975 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Cabbagehead (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

And one was me taking a river shot against a maniac, who made a horrendous flop raise as he always does and hit his gutshot on me.

OMAHA POT LIMIT ($5/$10)
Table 'Sodankyla' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: TTIGGER ($110 in chips)
Seat 2: TheDummy ($2183 in chips)
Seat 3: catoana ($454.25 in chips)
Seat 4: lagalaga ($1073 in chips)
Seat 5: Ribs ($1107 in chips)
Seat 6: katgam ($1563.40 in chips)
Seat 8: Pupu II ($897.50 in chips)
Ribs: posts small blind $5
katgam: posts big blind $10
tavira: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ribs [Kd Ts Tc 4d]
Pupu II: folds
TTIGGER: folds
TheDummy: raises $10 to $20
catoana: calls $20
lagalaga: calls $20
Ribs: calls $15
katgam: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [3d 4h 4c]
Ribs: bets $60
katgam: folds
TheDummy: folds
catoana: folds
lagalaga: raises $100 to $160
Ribs: calls $100
*** TURN *** [3d 4h 4c] [6d]
Ribs: checks
lagalaga: bets $160
Ribs: calls $160
*** RIVER *** [3d 4h 4c 6d] [7h]
Ribs: bets $737
lagalaga: calls $733 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ribs: shows [Kd Ts Tc 4d] (three of a kind, Fours)
lagalaga: shows [7s 8c 5s 5c] (a straight, Four to Eight)
lagalaga collected $2203 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2206 | Rake $3
Board [3d 4h 4c 6d 7h]
Seat 1: TTIGGER folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: TheDummy folded on the Flop
Seat 3: catoana folded on the Flop
Seat 4: lagalaga (button) showed [7s 8c 5s 5c] and won ($2203) with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 5: Ribs (small blind) showed [Kd Ts Tc 4d] and lost with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 6: katgam (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Pupu II folded before Flop (didn't bet)

But hey, keep telling me that TT is a bad hand.

[TrainHardDieHard]

more so in most other games, position in omaha is extremely important. I think it even mentions this in super system II. Some hands are playable when you are in a certain position, while others are not.

[lfairban]

In response to your question, there is one:

Poker Listings

It includes beginners advice and the "Top 30" starting hands. It also has advice about what hands to raise with and what hands to call with. I believe it assumes a full table 9-10 handed game. The advice is summerized as follows:

Top 30 Summery:
(All double suited)

AA
Ks+[Qs-Ts]
Qs+[Js-9s]
JsTs
(In other words, any 2P >=Ts plus Qs9s)
JJT9
AAJT
KQJT
Ks,Qs +2>=T

Raise with:

Top 30 Always if SS or DS, usually if not
AK +1>=T SS Axs
wrap (all cards) >=5 DS
gap >=5 DS (not top gap)
Ks DS

Limp with:

AQ w/ 1>=T Axs
wrap >=4
Axs + 2con
gap >=5 (not top gap)

These are their recomendations, and I take no responsibility for your results if you use them without applying other considerations.

[RichGangi]

[ QUOTE ]
It's extremely dangerous to think of omaha hands as rankable.
What you need to do is start thinking about hands in terms of how the 4 cards show synergy with each other .

Omaha is a game where the hand rankings are so much closer together, and indeed the value of a hand increases or decreases depending on the other hands in play.

Sometimes 6h 7s 8h 9s will be the best hand in omaha 3 way against two people with AA. Sometimes it will be screwed over big time by 7h 8s 9h Ts.

Just asking for rankings doesn't help your game too much. What you play should be dependant on the players around you.

[/ QUOTE ]
VNH sir....excellent post.