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#51
11-16-2007, 01:29 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
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[ QUOTE ] 1:Lower taxes for the middle class. 2:More emphasis on alternative and renewable energy. 3:Increased fuel efficiency by car makers. 4:Repeal of some tax breaks for big oil and the rich. 5:More funds for stem cell research. 6:Leave social security in a lock-box. 7:Maybe the appointment of pro-choice Supreme Court Justices. 8:Support for reasonable gun control. 9:Believe it or not, she will continue the War on Terror. [/ QUOTE ] I numbered your issues so that I could address them individually. 1: GREAT!! lets add lower taxes for everyone and PROOF that it will happen and maybe I will get on board 2: Market is working on this and it will happen better and faster if the guvment stays OUT. ( see also ethanol boondoggle) 3: same answer as #2 4: this is the same as saying tax increase for everyone. Companies don't pay taxes they just shift the burden to the consumer. 5: similar answer as #2 There should be absolutely no barriers to stem cell research. It is a potential $$$$ bonanza we don't need the government to pay for it. 6: while we are at it can I get a key to my own lockbox? Can I have a say in how my money is spent for my future? Or do I just piss into the wind and hope I don't get sprayed? 7: Meh ... true ethical justices who can actually read the constitution would uphold an abortion right, it may not be Roe due to technical legal reasons but I don't think that its something to fear. Its just a scare tactic used by the 2 sides to make them seem different to the base. 8: LOL .. we have more laws on the books now than you can shake 1000 sticks at. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns don't make you unsafe, the war on drugs and a government out of control do. 9: GREAT .. more entangling alliances and rampant spending to achieve nothing but bigger government. Sounds more like nine reasons to hope she dies in a grease fire to me. [/ QUOTE ] pretty much my thoughts.... but to think Hillary would cut taxes for anyone is laughable, rich, poor or middle class. And there is no Soc Sec lockbox, so I fail to understand how she will keep it in something that does not exist. 
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#52
11-16-2007, 01:45 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 1:Lower taxes for the middle class. 2:More emphasis on alternative and renewable energy. 3:Increased fuel efficiency by car makers. 4:Repeal of some tax breaks for big oil and the rich. 5:More funds for stem cell research. 6:Leave social security in a lock-box. 7:Maybe the appointment of pro-choice Supreme Court Justices. 8:Support for reasonable gun control. 9:Believe it or not, she will continue the War on Terror. [/ QUOTE ] I numbered your issues so that I could address them individually. 1: GREAT!! lets add lower taxes for everyone and PROOF that it will happen and maybe I will get on board 2: Market is working on this and it will happen better and faster if the guvment stays OUT. ( see also ethanol boondoggle) 3: same answer as #2 4: this is the same as saying tax increase for everyone. Companies don't pay taxes they just shift the burden to the consumer. 5: similar answer as #2 There should be absolutely no barriers to stem cell research. It is a potential $$$$ bonanza we don't need the government to pay for it. 6: while we are at it can I get a key to my own lockbox? Can I have a say in how my money is spent for my future? Or do I just piss into the wind and hope I don't get sprayed? 7: Meh ... true ethical justices who can actually read the constitution would uphold an abortion right, it may not be Roe due to technical legal reasons but I don't think that its something to fear. Its just a scare tactic used by the 2 sides to make them seem different to the base. 8: LOL .. we have more laws on the books now than you can shake 1000 sticks at. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns don't make you unsafe, the war on drugs and a government out of control do. 9: GREAT .. more entangling alliances and rampant spending to achieve nothing but bigger government. Sounds more like nine reasons to hope she dies in a grease fire to me. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree with everyone of your rebuttal points. Don't have time to get into each one. There have been threads with over 100 pages on social security alone explaining why your idea is bad in some people's opinions. You are free to feel that the market is best at doing everything and that the government isn't but I don't and therefore will be voting for Hillary. If you truly think that by taking away the tax breaks that the big oil companies enjoy (while earning tens of billions in profits) that it will simply be passed on to the consumer then I fear you don't understand the marketplace. It will not be a wash. Their profits will go down.
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#53
11-16-2007, 02:43 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 1:Lower taxes for the middle class. 2:More emphasis on alternative and renewable energy. 3:Increased fuel efficiency by car makers. 4:Repeal of some tax breaks for big oil and the rich. 5:More funds for stem cell research. 6:Leave social security in a lock-box. 7:Maybe the appointment of pro-choice Supreme Court Justices. 8:Support for reasonable gun control. 9:Believe it or not, she will continue the War on Terror. [/ QUOTE ] I numbered your issues so that I could address them individually. 1: GREAT!! lets add lower taxes for everyone and PROOF that it will happen and maybe I will get on board 2: Market is working on this and it will happen better and faster if the guvment stays OUT. ( see also ethanol boondoggle) 3: same answer as #2 4: this is the same as saying tax increase for everyone. Companies don't pay taxes they just shift the burden to the consumer. 5: similar answer as #2 There should be absolutely no barriers to stem cell research. It is a potential $$$$ bonanza we don't need the government to pay for it. 6: while we are at it can I get a key to my own lockbox? Can I have a say in how my money is spent for my future? Or do I just piss into the wind and hope I don't get sprayed? 7: Meh ... true ethical justices who can actually read the constitution would uphold an abortion right, it may not be Roe due to technical legal reasons but I don't think that its something to fear. Its just a scare tactic used by the 2 sides to make them seem different to the base. 8: LOL .. we have more laws on the books now than you can shake 1000 sticks at. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns don't make you unsafe, the war on drugs and a government out of control do. 9: GREAT .. more entangling alliances and rampant spending to achieve nothing but bigger government. Sounds more like nine reasons to hope she dies in a grease fire to me. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree with everyone of your rebuttal points. Don't have time to get into each one. There have been threads with over 100 pages on social security alone explaining why your idea is bad in some people's opinions. You are free to feel that the market is best at doing everything and that the government isn't but I don't and therefore will be voting for Hillary. If you truly think that by taking away the tax breaks that the big oil companies enjoy (while earning tens of billions in profits) that it will simply be passed on to the consumer then I fear you don't understand the marketplace. It will not be a wash. Their profits will go down. [/ QUOTE ] No, they will raise their prices.... so the end result will be, the govt has more money, the oil company has the same amount, and the consumer spends more to fuel their vehicle. Sounds great!
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#54
11-16-2007, 02:55 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everyone of your rebuttal points. Don't have time to get into each one. There have been threads with over 100 pages on social security alone explaining why your idea is bad in some people's opinions. You are free to feel that the market is best at doing everything and that the government isn't but I don't and therefore will be voting for Hillary. [/ QUOTE ] These are the posts I love the most. "You're free to have your opinion about how you want to live but I don't agree so I'm going to do my best to make sure you AREN'T FREE to actually live the way you want to." It doesn't get any plainer than this!
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#55
11-16-2007, 03:23 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
These are the posts I love the most. "You're free to have your opinion about how you want to live but I don't agree so I'm going to do my best to make sure you AREN'T FREE to actually live the way you want to." It doesn't get any plainer than this! [/ QUOTE ] Hey look, Nielsio's back in politics! Why can't Nielsio be free? By this definition, every Republican/Democrat/Green/whatever is doing their best to make sure every other one isn't free to live the way they want, either. It's a non-starter. Enjoy democracy. "But they're all statists oppressing me!" It's a democracy. Feel free to persuade some large fraction of the country and you might eventually get what you want. I suggest you start by not calling everyone else an oppressor; it turns off a lot of your audience.
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#57
11-16-2007, 03:40 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everyone of your rebuttal points. Don't have time to get into each one. [/ QUOTE ] It's cool man. I'm ok with you being wrong and I'm glad your ok with it to. [ QUOTE ] There have been threads with over 100 pages on social security alone explaining why your idea is bad in some people's opinions. You are free to feel that the market is best at doing everything and that the government isn't but I don't and therefore will be voting for Hillary. [/ QUOTE ] the threads can be 200000000000000 pages long. It is still a FACT that I can do better with MY money than the government can. Even if I only put it in my mattress. The market is not perfect I never have and never will say that. It is simply more efficient and less arbitrary than the government, which has never and will never do anything well. Other than spend money and make thing more complicated than need be. [ QUOTE ] If you truly think that by taking away the tax breaks that the big oil companies enjoy (while earning tens of billions in profits) that it will simply be passed on to the consumer then I fear you don't understand the marketplace. It will not be a wash. Their profits will go down. [/ QUOTE ] Someone doesn't understand the marketplace and it isn't me. To begin with if you believe Exxon mobile isn't going to raise its prices to keep up with your taxes please mail me some of what your smokin. Secondly since when is making a profit and being successful a sin? Why is it our business how much money they make?
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#58
11-16-2007, 03:44 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] These are the posts I love the most. "You're free to have your opinion about how you want to live but I don't agree so I'm going to do my best to make sure you AREN'T FREE to actually live the way you want to." It doesn't get any plainer than this! [/ QUOTE ] Hey look, Nielsio's back in politics! Why can't Nielsio be free? By this definition, every Republican/Democrat/Green/whatever is doing their best to make sure every other one isn't free to live the way they want, either. It's a non-starter. Enjoy democracy. "But they're all statists oppressing me!" It's a democracy. Feel free to persuade some large fraction of the country and you might eventually get what you want. I suggest you start by not calling everyone else an oppressor; it turns off a lot of your audience. [/ QUOTE ] Hey look, the "STFU and take your beatings, it will go smoother" guy is back. You seem like you enjoy it.
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#59
11-16-2007, 03:54 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] These are the posts I love the most. "You're free to have your opinion about how you want to live but I don't agree so I'm going to do my best to make sure you AREN'T FREE to actually live the way you want to." It doesn't get any plainer than this! [/ QUOTE ] Hey look, Nielsio's back in politics! Why can't Nielsio be free? By this definition, every Republican/Democrat/Green/whatever is doing their best to make sure every other one isn't free to live the way they want, either. It's a non-starter. Enjoy democracy. "But they're all statists oppressing me!" It's a democracy. Feel free to persuade some large fraction of the country and you might eventually get what you want. I suggest you start by not calling everyone else an oppressor; it turns off a lot of your audience. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't we just start with stay out of my business and I will say out of yours. Democracy is a fine way to resolve issue of community interest. But forcing people to live a certain way simply because you don't like it is beyond deplorable. Our current version of "democracy" has broken down to an us versus them game of "How can I make <insert group> do what I want even though its non of my business?"
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#60
11-16-2007, 04:01 PM
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Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't we just start with stay out of my business and I will say out of yours. [/ QUOTE ] Sure. Are you planning on having AC-land in Canada? No? Okay, then it's my business. [ QUOTE ] Democracy is a fine way to resolve issue of community interest. But forcing people to live a certain way simply because you don't like it is beyond deplorable. [/ QUOTE ] Then you're going to have to convince me and several hundred million others to like AC-land.
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