AKs, 200bbs, 4bet pot vs a regular

[Rotterdaum]

So then you guys are saying this hand is meaningless because the defining mistake was made preflop? Is this final?

Is fold better than call preflop?

It's only 46 to me with 360 effective. I think a call can be ok here.

[cs3]

I fold PF because it sucks hard when you do hit and still arent sure if you should get your stack in. And 20/15s just dont 4-bet that light, so youre usually either a huge dog, or not getting paid off when you make a hand.

i would prefer calling with 22 or 78s over AKo

[Kermit]

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So then you guys are saying this hand is meaningless because the defining mistake was made preflop? Is this final?

Is fold better than call preflop?

It's only 46 to me with 360 effective. I think a call can be ok here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rotterdaum,

I don't necessarily think you made a mistake by just calling preflop. I just don't understand why you would call a four bet, hit TPTK and then start looking for a fold.

[Rotterdaum]

I want to see if people can make a case for a raise, or a fold on the flop or a fold on turn ...

[steel108]

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Ok, let's settle on PF? Who folds this? You only know that he's 20/15 over 100 hands and you've been 3 betting a fairly wide range but not been 4 bet much or at all in the session

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I just don't like calling bc your not making money most times if you hit. I prefer pushing to calling pf to see all 5 cards, especially when it's suited. Granted, pushes will usually be called by hands that dominate us, but with games so aggressive these days, I see J-J, 10-10, A-Q calling.

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I really don't see anything other than AA,KK, maybe AK calling a push pre ... would it be a goood push given this?

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Are you serious? If he is folding everything, but those hands, just run the numbers. I'm too lazy, but I believe pushing is still +EV.

I don't think pf is horrible, I just prefer a different line. But if I'm calling, I can't fathom getting away from it on this board.

[J. Stew]

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Ok, let's settle on PF? Who folds this? You only know that he's 20/15 over 100 hands and you've been 3 betting a fairly wide range but not been 4 bet much or at all in the session

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I just don't like calling bc your not making money most times if you hit. I prefer pushing to calling pf to see all 5 cards, especially when it's suited. Granted, pushes will usually be called by hands that dominate us, but with games so aggressive these days, I see J-J, 10-10, A-Q calling.

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any read, history, tilt? otherwise we're pissing in the dark. if there isn't any i'd just fold giving him a range of QQ+ AKs, AKo. if he's 4betting lighter i push.

[anacrime]

A call if fine if you think villain will put in more money with an underpair on the flop.

Turn is vvvclose I think. One one hand it seems like he's never pushing KK/QQ here an on the other we're getting over 2:1. So I fold? I guess...

[Rotterdaum]

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I fold PF because it sucks hard when you do hit and still arent sure if you should get your stack in. And 20/15s just dont 4-bet that light, so youre usually either a huge dog, or not getting paid off when you make a hand.

i would prefer calling with 22 or 78s over AKo

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Well, first it's AKs, second, calling with 22 or 78s preflop is beyond horrible, are you serious?

[steel108]

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So then you guys are saying this hand is meaningless because the defining mistake was made preflop? Is this final?

Is fold better than call preflop?

It's only 46 to me with 360 effective. I think a call can be ok here.

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Rotterdaum,

I don't necessarily think you made a mistake by just calling preflop. I just don't understand why you would call a four bet, hit TPTK and then start looking for a fold.

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That's basically what I'm saying. If your calling, you can't really get away from it unless the board is like A-Q-J.

[cs3]

as played i would fold the turn. you called a PF 4-bet so he knows youre in the uppermost part of your range, and then you show even more strength by calling his flop bet.
it looks like he puts you on exactly AK and doesnt think you will fold.