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  #1  
Old 11-23-2007, 05:13 PM
Profish2285 Profish2285 is offline
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Default Another common spot with AK

No reads on villain. He runs at 21/15/infinite over a small sample.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO ($60.40)
Button ($230.90)
SB ($53.05)
BB ($49.75)
Hero ($51.10)
MP ($90.30)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $1.75, Button calls $1.75, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($6) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $8</font>, Button folds, Hero....
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2007, 05:23 PM
latvaniemi latvaniemi is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

Well since he coldcalls your pf raise i'm excluding kk,aa from his range.

If he has something like QJ with the backdoor flush it's something like 60/40 maybe right?

I dont think you have that much foldequity if you push since he reraised but with the deadmoney in the pot your closing it up to be a coinflip. But if he has AJ or KJ your drawing dead on one cards and are really in bad shape. If he setted you with jj your in terrible shape.

Im leaning towards a fold since overplaying ak is costly. You took a strong line and he reraised you so...

Stoves sais with a wide range on villain and a added combodraw

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

7,920 games 0.046 secs 172,173 games/sec

Board: Js 7d Td
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.614% 26.79% 00.82% 2122 65.00 { AsKd }
Hand 1: 72.386% 71.57% 00.82% 5668 65.00 { QdQh, JdJh, 9d8d, AcJd, AcJh, KcJh, KcJs, KsJd, QcJd }

So you have to fold?
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2007, 05:24 PM
spacetime spacetime is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

This may be viewed as weak-tight but I just fold here w/o reads. We don't know if we can get him off of a weak jack or ten, a bare FD is a large part of his range but again, w/o reads just fold.

IMO folding &gt; raising &gt;&gt; calling
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2007, 05:26 PM
anthb7210p anthb7210p is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.802% 36.03% 00.77% 22829 489.00 { AsKd }
Hand 1: 63.198% 62.43% 00.77% 39553 489.00 { JJ-TT, 77, AJs-ATs, KJs+, QJs, 98s, AJo-ATo, KJo+, QJo }

Does that look about right in terms of range? I probably fold unless I've been seeing him do this a lot. Also I don't think you should be cbetting on this board into 2 villans.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2007, 05:35 PM
Profish2285 Profish2285 is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

I have 2 overs and a gs, why wouldnt you c-bet here?
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2007, 06:07 PM
Gap23Razor Gap23Razor is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

here's my thought process for what is worth

if i call there will be $22 in the pot--i have to pay $4 to call, so the pot will be 5.2 times greater than what i put in...how many outs do i have? i have a gutshot, backdoor flush draw and two overcards, so i will give myself the equal of 5 clean outs, maybe more...47 cards with 5 winners, i need the implied odds to be 9.2 for what i put in...that is more than pot odds right now...can i get those extra bets in the pot if i make my hand? that would be another $16 or so, and i have it in my stack, would i get the action for that plus more? could my hand be beaten by a redraw? and if i get redrawn, how do i feel out re-buying?

there seems to be justification for a call here although risky...here i would probably opt to fold...i'd figure if the villain makes a habit of these plays i can take advantage of it later to get his whole stack when i have a made hand
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2007, 06:12 PM
infinity235 infinity235 is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

I fold.

Razor's thinking is a little flawed: If you make top pair, you won't be good all the time here and suffer from reverse implied odds instead of positive implied odds... furthermore, you are OOP, so if the turn bricks, and you check, villain probably fires again, which means that we need to calculate our odds to make one of our "five" outs on the next card... which is 1:9... that's too little to go on playing this hand.

Fold and be done with it. I hate getting my cbets minraised, but there is nothing I can do about it here.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2007, 06:18 PM
Burcak Burcak is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

Personally I call this. An A/K might come and I might see a cheap showdown. A diamond may come and it might be checked around. A Q might come and we might win a big pot.

If his miniraise implies weakness then an A, K, Q are likely outs. If it means strenght we are going all in if a Q comes, where we pay 4 to get 18 + his stack.

Also I think it pays dividends to call a miniraise then fold to a bet in the future.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2007, 06:30 PM
gregorio gregorio is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

[ QUOTE ]
I have 2 overs and a gs, why wouldnt you c-bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you don't cbet here, it is because this flop has a good chance to have hit one of the villains, so if you just check/call, you get to see the turn and draw to your 2 overs and a gs instead of having to fold to a raise. It's not like you're betting for value, and you probably don't have a lot of FE vs 2 villains on this board, and it is a good board for someone to make a play at it because it likely misses you.
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2007, 06:35 PM
Profish2285 Profish2285 is offline
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Default Re: Another common spot with AK

Imo if I am going to call a bet here I might as well just bet it myself. I think the logic of not betting in flawed in that I dont have much of a hand to c/c with. I dont have a great draw by any means. To make up for this I can add some FE by betting at it. While this board does hit opponents I think its safe to assume that they fold sometimes. I probably should just fold after I get min raised though.
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