being bankrolled

[desrat33]

I am considering having an associate put up money to bankroll my poker play. I have been sucessful over a two year period of internet play which obviously has been somewhat curtailed as I am a US player. My question is -what percentage of my winnings would be equitable to both parties? I would like to move up in levels (prudently and with proper bankroll management of course) and possibly add brick and mortar casino play. Does anyone have any background,experience,or ideas? <font color="blue"> </font>

[Rek]

Hi desrat - A lot of views and no replies so I thought I would add my 2 cents worth even though I'm no expert on this.

If you are getting a backer to support you at levels you otherwise could not play then I think 50/50 is reasonable.

If you are very good however such backing would have to be far in excess of your finances otherwise why would you want to give away a % of your profits?

[GoDownSwingn]

If you are an established +EV player and your backer realizes this, I think you could probably negotiate your way to a 55/45 or a 60/40 deal. Obviously that's after paying back the initial backing.

I've read at different places this is how many established tournament players are backed in the big tournaments with a 60/40 split for the player. Not sure how it would work in cash games.

I agree with the above poster though, if you are a strong player why not just build up your own bankroll and keep your profits?

[Nightlight87]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are an established +EV player and your backer realizes this, I think you could probably negotiate your way to a 55/45 or a 60/40 deal. Obviously that's after paying back the initial backing.

I've read at different places this is how many established tournament players are backed in the big tournaments with a 60/40 split for the player. Not sure how it would work in cash games.

I agree with the above poster though, if you are a strong player why not just build up your own bankroll and keep your profits?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard of this been done before so forgive me if my reply is stupid [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. But after the initial backing has been paid back a 60/40 split doesn't seem that fair. I mean you have already paid of the initial investment so anything he gets from now on is just profit and giving 40% away for someone who is no longer doing anything seems a lot?

[LiveInPeace]

There are many ways to structure this but one of the simplest is that the backer(s) puts up a percentage of your total bankroll (can be any agreed percentage), you put up the remainder and then the backer(s) gets repaid the same percentage of your final bankroll (which includes all wins and losses) at a predetermined time in the future (or they roll over the investment for another period).

[LiveInPeace]

Although always a good idea, moving to B&amp;M you definitely want a clear agreement about what expenses might be permitted (e.g. rake, badbeat, dealer tips) and what might not (tips for waitresses, food, travel).

[holdem2000]

For a single tournament 60/40 (60 on the player's side) is terrible for the investor even for a great player. See my post at the bottom of this thread for a complete explanation.

In the situation of being bankrolled for long-term play in cash games I recommend deciding in advance that when your bankroll increases to $X the backer receives his initial investment plus some additional amount of profit. The thing is, the extra profit the investor receives is primarily compensation for the risk of a loss - if you're a good player and properly managing your bankroll (i.e. moving down in stakes if you start of on a downswing early) there really isn't risk of loss so much as risk that it may take a long time before you've earned enough to pay them back.

If you are sure you're a winning player I'd recommend trying to get an interest bearing loan from your friend for most of your bankroll, say for 75% of it, then stake you for the other 25%. Just let him keep all of the profits on that 25% of your bankroll until you've made some preset amount of profit, at which point you give him a quarter of your current roll. The 75% loan you pay back when your roll is even bigger, or after some predetermined amount of time, and you include some preset interest rate on this portion.

So if he gives you $1000, of which $750 is a loan at a 7% interest rate and $250 is towards staking you, maybe when your roll is $2000 you give him a quarter of your roll for his stake (so you give him $500 in exchange for his $250 he provided) then after a year you pay back the loan for a little over $800 ($750 with 7% interest for a year).

This lets him get a portion of your winnings for his service, but if you're a solidly winning player he doesn't deserve a huge share as really you're just taking a loan from him rather than him participating in a risky venture.

[desrat33]

Great info thanks a lot.