WIERD THING HAPPENED

chimpanzepoopdic · #1 10-09-2007, 02:58 PM

Alright we were at a home game waiting for a third dealer to show up so we could open up another table. 1/2 n/l 200 max buy in. The guy finally shows up, opens a fresh deck, shuffles and deals. The very first hand was a total cooler for the # 3 seat. Straight flush VS Ace high flush no pairs on the board at the river. All the money goes in and the #3 seat has to rebuy on the very first hand. The next hand after the cards were dealt one player noticed he had a Joker. I had the rules of the game and a Joker in my hand. The dealer had forgotten to take them out before he shuffled and dealt!

Should that first hand have been a misdeal? Should the #3 seat have his 1st buy in returned?

As you can imagine the guy was pretty ticked off.

psandman · #2 10-09-2007, 03:04 PM

No the first hand is not a misdeal, and he is not entitled to a refund.

An irregularity discovered after the fact does not effect previous hands.

BTW, this is why a dealer should spread a deck before using it, to check for extra or missing cards.

chimpanzepoopdic · #3 10-09-2007, 03:09 PM

If we had noticed the extra cards during the first hand after action had taken place (say one of them came out on the turn) would it have been a misdeal or should the xtra cards have been removed and the deck reshuffled?

Small Fry · #4 10-09-2007, 03:42 PM

Still no misdeal. Treat them, the jokers, card rules card as meaningless scraps of paper

psandman · #5 10-09-2007, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If we had noticed the extra cards during the first hand after action had taken place (say one of them came out on the turn) would it have been a misdeal or should the xtra cards have been removed and the deck reshuffled?

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be void hand and all bets returned to the bettors. The exception is a player who gets one of these cards and doesn't immediately say something and allows action to occur. In that case that player does not get his bets back.

acesinhole7 · #6 10-09-2007, 04:11 PM

Had he won the hand, would he have returned the monies once the error was found?

Small Fry · #7 10-09-2007, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If we had noticed the extra cards during the first hand after action had taken place (say one of them came out on the turn) would it have been a misdeal or should the xtra cards have been removed and the deck reshuffled?

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be void hand and all bets returned to the bettors. The exception is a player who gets one of these cards and doesn't immediately say something and allows action to occur. In that case that player does not get his bets back.

[/ QUOTE ]

psand,

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not?

THis is from Robert's Rules: A joker that appears in a game where it is not used is treated as a scrap of paper. Discovery of a joker does not cause a misdeal. If the joker is discovered before a player acts on his or her hand, it is replaced as in the previous rule. If the player does not call attention to the joker before acting, then the player has a dead hand.

There are a few situations where having the extra cards in the deck would cause a misdeal but I don't think the op's descriptions of events "joker appearing as turn card" would cause a misdeal.

psandman · #8 10-09-2007, 04:52 PM

your probably correct it should be a scrap of paper, now that I think about it. I was thinking of treating as you would a card with a different color back or a duplicate card, but I guess its probably better to treat it as a boxed card.

Rottersod · #9 10-09-2007, 05:52 PM

Although technically the first hand should not be refunded something very strange happened there. The most likely scenario is that the dealer did not shuffle the cards very well and basically dealt out a set deck. Accidentally I'm sure since he was too dumb to check for jokers.

What can you do about it after the fact? Not sure if you can do anything unless these guys are friends and agree that the deck wasn't right.

MrRoboto313 · #10 10-10-2007, 02:36 AM

even i turn came out a joker or rules both would have agreed to play it out. with the straight flush draw and ace high flush draw.

my problem here is that the dealer should have washed a new deck.u cant just shuffle a deck out of the box. whether its a frindly game or not. i can shuffle a new deck for hours and it woudl stil be in the same order if i wanted