live preflop situation with 99

[innerpeace]

i think following hand may be interesting to some. old hand i played, but is related to another recent forum strategy post, so have decided to post my hand.

situation is live game with 50-100 blinds. i describe table conditions because i think they are important to live game decisions.

there are two key parties in hand besides me. one is conservative solid abc player, capable of making some tricky plays. recently moved up in stakes, so in my opinion not too comfortable yet. solid guy has about 14k behind.

other party in this hand is wealthy maniac fish. when he sat down he said he came to "play poker". has been raising and reraising most hands big preflop like 15-30 times big blind. he is the kind of player who honestly thinks A5o is the nuts. i am not sure if he knows that he is allowed to fold or even allowed to check. he will overplay his hands and not unusual to see him to get his money in preflop with these weak hands. his stack has swung around, but poker gods have been kind to him as he has sucked out a couple of times. he has about 25k in front.

my image is very tight. not because i play tight but because i have not seen many hands and not easy to steal pots without hand given the rich maniac calling station in game. i only have about 9.5k in front due partly to being card dead.

utg folds. utg+1 is solid guy who makes it $500 to go. gut tells me he has good hand, but not very strong preflop hand like AA/KK. folds to me on button with black 99. i decide flat call. folds to rich maniac in bb who instantly makes it $2500. solid player calls without much hesitation. how do you consider playing in such a situation? i think based on my description there is a correct answer, maybe obvious to good players here, but will post thoughts later. if something is missing in description i gave like about reads, you can ask me for more information, though of course no guarantees that my reads are really as accurate as i think they are.

[MDMA]

If you're positive this guy would never cold-call the raise w/ AA/KK here (which you didn't think he had initially either given your gut feeling) with him playing a bit of "scared money" (and you behind in position on him) and that he would fold almost anything else (also given his scared-money tendencies), then obv just push. Otherwise fold.

[O_Witty]

y not push and force a fold from utg+1 and welcome a call from bb? curious as to results.

[MDMA]

Still, you have to be pretttty sure about what he's folding, since your initial cold-call might turn him into calling w/ a lot more than those hands.

[HEK]

Yeah shove if solid folds QQ or less.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah shove if solid folds QQ or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL... he has 9K.

[Joker757]

FINALLY, somebody on here that understands poker. I am new to this site just a few days and have been replying to some of these what should I do in this situation and I cannot believe the amount of people who do not include any of this pertinent information. They either don’t think about it, which is scary for them but good for the good players such as us, or they just think about it but don’t think it’s pertinent. Either way WOW!

Anyway, this had to be a great game to be in. All the big games around my town have dried out have to now go to Vegas or AC. Ok sorry back to the hand.

I agree with your assessment of the UTG+1 I really think he would be an idiot to bet AA or KK there knowing he has the rich maniac in the BB who hasn’t thrown a hand away since the Birth of Christ. The only other possibility would be that he was trying to isolate against the rich maniac figuring it would all fold around to BB given his solid, tight image.
But for the most part I think that is a good call there plus his bet of 5x the BB is a little much for AA or KK unless it’s the first time he's had them. LOL

The only danger you had to be worried about was the BB doing what he did and THEN the UTG+1 putting in a big re-raise. The BB’s raise doesn’t scare me in fact it delights me since he is building a pot for UTG+1 and myself (you) when chances are he has the worst of it. I would have breathed a sigh or relief when the UTG+1 only calls now this is an easy call or... you could get a little greedy and re raise knowing that you probably have the best hand right now or second best and push out the UTG+1. hmmmm.

The more I think about it the more this reverse squeeze play if you will makes sense. Pre flop there was $300 in blinds now $300 + (2*500) + 2500 + (2*2000)= $7800 if I am not mistaken. You should have approx. $6000 left after you call and you know that more than likely the BB is going to come out firing. If you push here (which I like) and he calls you’ll be laying $6000 to win $13,800 say ($14,000) gives you odds of 2.3 to 1.
Pretty good odds against a maniac! I’ll take this position all day long!

Plus by pushing you know that the UTG+1 can’t stand a 3rd raise given his call of the re-raise. Two questions to ask yourself: 1) If an over card flops (likely) and the BB bets and the UTG+1 folds will you call the raise which will likely force you to call all in or push all in because you wont have much left. If you say yes then you need to push now and eliminate the UTG+1 to increase you chances of winning the hand in a showdown
The only danger there is that that BB may have picked up a hand but he is only about 3% to pick up a big hand behind you in the blinds and given his play this is a GREAT situation to both double up and slow him down.

Don’t think I missed anything. If I missed a point please let me know. Think it’s all there.
Let me know about your play but given the information this appears to be a no brainier and like I said I’ll take your spot all day long!

Good luck!

[HEK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah shove if solid folds QQ or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL... he has 9K.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see a solid player calling 2 all ins w/QQ especially by OP who appears nitty and may have been wanting to trap the maniac w/KK or AA by just calling UTG+1 PFR preflop in position.

[Joker757]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah shove if solid folds QQ or less.

[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL... he has 9K.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what flawless and many other amateurs fail to see is the golden situation that has arisen. Yea it might be 9K flawless but in order to be an effective high limit player you have to have a total disregard for money at the table but be a good money manager away. I think if you read my post things will become clear that at this level and above you cant play just your cards if you do you'll never make it!

[innerpeace]

maybe my description of reads made decision too obvious to some. but i suppose having such reads is one matter and going with such reads when it costs the entire stack is another. i felt likely based on action that solid guy was ahead of me, but i thought that 'reverse squeeze' could work, so i pushed. bb maniac called quickly. solid guy was exasperated and mucked after some theatrics. he accidentally exposed cards when folding and showed two black jacks dominating me in suits too. maniac unintentionally slow rolled me and flipped over an ace first and then a 6 of the same suit second. fortunately, poker gods did not help maniac and i won nice pot.