Trade Stoudamire for Garnett?

[gusmahler]

This was mentioned briefly in the NBA playoff thread, but there didn't seem to be much discussion about it.

Simmons wrote this ( http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...yDate=20070514 ):
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I'm breaking out Hubie Brown's second-person routine for the third and biggest point. OK, you're Phoenix. Heading into this summer, you have the best roster situation in the league. You have a superstar (Nash), two All-Stars (Stoudemire and Marion), an emerging star (Barbosa), two valuable role players with fair contracts (Diaw and Bell), a fantastic coach (D'Antoni) and a realistic chance to have three No. 1 picks in a loaded 2007 draft, including a lottery pick if Atlanta doesn't land in the top three. You also have some urgency here because of Steve Nash's age (33) and back troubles, so you need to parlay your assets into two or three more players who can push you to another level. You also know that, until you figure out a way to neutralize Tim Duncan, you will always be entering the playoffs hoping and praying that ...

A. Someone else knocks off the Spurs before you play them,
B. Duncan blows out his knee or suffers a catastrophic household accident, or
C. Duncan's eyeballs actually fly out of his head while he's reacting to a bad call.

(End of the second-person routine.)

So here's my solution: If Phoenix gets bounced this week, don't they HAVE to trade Amare Stoudemire for KG?

Right now, Stoudemire is a base-year compensation player because he's finishing the first year of his contract extension (five years, $73 million). The deal I'm proposing can't work under the cap until mid-July, when Stoudemire's cap figure morphs into the value of his current contract ($13.2 million for next season) and makes him infinitely more easy to trade (for details, check out Larry Coon's NBA salary cap FAQ). But they could still agree on a pre-draft trade that wouldn't become official until a few weeks later.

Assuming Atlanta's pick doesn't land in the top three, here's my proposal: Stoudemire, Atlanta's pick (depending on how the lottery shakes out, it would be as high as No. 4 or as low as No. 6) and Marcus Banks (for cap purposes) to Minnesota for Garnett and Minnesota's pick (as high as No. 7, as low as No. 9).

Here's why both teams should do it:

Minnesota: That's practically 100 cents on the dollar for KG. They're getting a first-team All-NBA big man who's younger than KG, plus they're jumping into the top five of the draft with a chance to add another blue-chip forward (either Brandan Wright or Al Horford). Examine the T-Wolves roster and you'll notice that they don't need a four-for-one deal for KG; they're looking at an immediate future in which the Clippers and Celtics own two of their future first-rounders within the next five years, so it wouldn't make sense for them to bottom out with picks and young players. Stoudemire is the best and most sensible option for them. Period.

Phoenix: KG solves four problems for the Suns. First, they don't have to worry about the debilitating Marion/Stoudemire alpha-dog battle anymore. Second, they don't have to worry about Stoudemire's surgically reconstructed knee anymore. Third, between KG, Nash and Bell, the Suns would have more than enough toughness/intensity/competitiveness to compete every spring (a real issue for them, even this season -- they're just not nasty enough). And fourth, they'd finally have someone who could potentially play Duncan to a draw (or as close as possible). Stoudemire just isn't a good defensive player -- he's prone to foul trouble and gets discouraged easily (as we witnessed while he pouted on the bench in Game 3). As for the age difference between KG and Stoudemire ... do you realize that Amare is only six years younger than KG? Crazy but true. And slipping two to four spots in the draft wouldn't hurt the Suns because they could still take Joakim Noah, an athletic big man who's perfect for them (and could play right away).

Now ...

Let's say the Suns make this deal, package their other two No. 1 picks (No. 24 and No. 29) to move into the mid-teens for Acie Law IV (the most NBA-ready point guard in the draft), then spend their free agent exemption on an athletic swingman like Matt Barnes. Maybe they'd be paying the luxury tax, but screw it -- how many times can you put together a potential 70-win team that's a prohibitive title favorite and the top TV draw in the league?

Check out this nine-man nucleus: KG, Marion, Bell, Barbosa and Nash as the starters, with Noah, Diaw, Law and Barnes coming off the bench. They'd be covered for every conceivable situation (smallball, grind-it-out ball, run-and-gun, you name it) and they'd be led by two desperate superstars (KG and Nash) who'd basically be ready to give 10 years of their lives to win one title.

Would you bet against that team in the 2008 playoffs? Me neither.



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Some criticisms about the trade:

1) He criticizes Nash because he's 33, but just brushes off the fact that Garnett is 31.

1A) Garnett is "only six" years older. But six years is an eternity in a basketball career.

2) Can Garnett really handle Duncan? (I honestly don't know).

3) Garnett is clearly on the downswing of his career. His stats have gone down each of the last 3 years.

4) While Garnett is better than Stoudamire defensively, I think Stoudamire is a better finisher.

5) If Marion has a problem sharing the spotlight with Stoudamire, how's he going to feel sharing the spotlight with KG, who's much more of a household name?

Comments?

[kidcolin]

I'm pretty sure this trade would never happen, though I'd be pumped if it did.

1) I don't think he's brushing it off. I think he's just saying if PHX wants a trophy in the next 2 years, get this guy and do it. Deal with the fallout later.

1A) Agreed. I lol'd reading that part.

2) No one can "handle" Duncan, but yes, KG is a very competent defender so he can make him battle. He's a lot smarter on the defensive end, so he won't get himself in foul trouble the way Amare does either.

3) He's still incredible, though. This would really be an all or nothing trade for PHX.

4) Yeah, but Garnett is better at literally every other aspect of the game, and it's not like he isn't a competent scorer. He's probably not as great a compliment to Nash as Amare is, though.

5) Is it about recognition for Marion, or about the in-house dynamic? I always thought it was the latter, in which case KG is probably a better fit.

I'd be incredibly shocked if this ever happened.

[capone0]

It's close. It what can you do for me now. The window for the Suns is as long as Nash can play at this level. I'm not certain of how long this really is. KG is an upgrade to Amare right now. I think if Amare never got hurt, I'd be slightly closer. KG also has a larger contract then Amare which is a negative for the owner. As you stated, I doubt KG is going to stop Duncan, nobody stops him, but he's probally an upgrade over Amare defensively against him.

The players that tend to give TD trouble are long players. Honestly, I'm not sure of a certain situation to beating the Spurs right now for the Suns. The Spurs obviously are pretty tough to solve.

The problems I see with Amare is his loss of focus on the court. 2 years ago he was amazing in the Spurs-Suns series. This year, he is again good but not as good. He's gotten into stupid foul trouble.

[blindside]

1) He criticizes Nash because he's 33, but just brushes off the fact that Garnett is 31.

Big men with skills tend to age more gracefully.... pg's are usually done by nash's age but since he is such a fantastic shooter as well as ball handler he should be able to sustain his production for a few years....


1A) Garnett is "only six" years older. But six years is an eternity in a basketball career.

i think he was referring to degrees.... 6 years really isn't that much when perception is that he was 10+ yrs older which i honestly thought it was...

2) Can Garnett really handle Duncan? (I honestly don't know).

not so much as handle but he'll do loads better than amare... and be much better on the boards to boot so it is a huge defensive upgrade...

3) Garnett is clearly on the downswing of his career. His stats have gone down each of the last 3 years.

it's not inconceivable to see him to maintain this level of production for another 4 years.... he can board, he can pass he can score... 7 footers like that don't come around too often... and if you look at a guy like webber as a comparison webber's been doing it for awhile now except now webber's doing it on one leg.... if KG avoids injury he should be all-star caliber for a good amount of time...

4) While Garnett is better than Stoudamire defensively, I think Stoudamire is a better finisher.

and garnett is also a better passer and rebounder and better all around offensively... it's a trade off.

5) If Marion has a problem sharing the spotlight with Stoudamire, how's he going to feel sharing the spotlight with KG, who's much more of a household name?

ego's are going to be hurt regardless.... honestly i think if you have to relataively young guys it works to their detriment because they're all trying to solidify their place in the pecking order while you have a guy like KG who's already established and recognized as one of the best so at this point he doesn't care...

if the suns can avoid including the hawk's pick.... it would be a great deal for them...

[capone0]

KG can also improve offensively with the increased number of possessions you have on PHX. I don't think Minnesota is known for being very up tempo, additionally he probally couldn't be double teammed very often with such talent on the court with him at all times.

[Vyse]

Let's not forget they'd be left with no bench. KG would have to play C, too. Amare fits in the Suns offense much better because he's dominant offensively; it'd be interesting to see KG's more passive game try to adapt.

[capone0]

How is trading Marcus banks, a guy they overpaid for and never use, leaving them with no bench?

If the trade that is proposed by Simmons went through this is what they'd be left with.

C-Thomas
PF-Garnett
SF-Marion
SG-Bell
PG-Nash

Bench
Diaw
Jones
Minnesota Pick
Other 2 First Round Picks (can trade back up with these + Minnesota)
Barbosa

I don't see how that's much worse + no bench. The Suns biggest issue is how to stop the Spurs. The only teams to really stop the Spurs in their run were headed by a healthy Shaq and last year with Dirk and company taking them to 7. I'm not sure if this will take them over the hump but it's probally an upgrade.

[NozeCandy]

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How is trading Marcus banks, a guy they overpaid for and never use, leaving them with no bench?

If the trade that is proposed by Simmons went through this is what they'd be left with.

C-Thomas
PF-Garnett
SF-Marion
SG-Bell
PG-Nash

Bench
Diaw
Jones
Minnesota Pick
Other 2 First Round Picks (can trade back up with these + Minnesota)
Barbosa

I don't see how that's much worse + no bench. The Suns biggest issue is how to stop the Spurs. The only teams to really stop the Spurs in their run were headed by a healthy Shaq and last year with Dirk and company taking them to 7. I'm not sure if this will take them over the hump but it's probally an upgrade.

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I highly doubt Thomas is starting regularly on that team.

[gusmahler]

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Let's not forget they'd be left with no bench. KG would have to play C, too. Amare fits in the Suns offense much better because he's dominant offensively; it'd be interesting to see KG's more passive game try to adapt.

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Simmons dealt with the bench issue. Sign a free-agent (like Barnes from GSW), then use the two first round picks for Noah and Acie Law:
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Check out this nine-man nucleus: KG, Marion, Bell, Barbosa and Nash as the starters, with Noah, Diaw, Law and Barnes coming off the bench. They'd be covered for every conceivable situation (smallball, grind-it-out ball, run-and-gun, you name it) and they'd be led by two desperate superstars (KG and Nash) who'd basically be ready to give 10 years of their lives to win one title.

Would you bet against that team in the 2008 playoffs? Me neither.


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[Vyse]

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Let's not forget they'd be left with no bench. KG would have to play C, too. Amare fits in the Suns offense much better because he's dominant offensively; it'd be interesting to see KG's more passive game try to adapt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simmons dealt with the bench issue. Sign a free-agent (like Barnes from GSW), then use the two first round picks for Noah and Acie Law:
[ QUOTE ]
Check out this nine-man nucleus: KG, Marion, Bell, Barbosa and Nash as the starters, with Noah, Diaw, Law and Barnes coming off the bench. They'd be covered for every conceivable situation (smallball, grind-it-out ball, run-and-gun, you name it) and they'd be led by two desperate superstars (KG and Nash) who'd basically be ready to give 10 years of their lives to win one title.

Would you bet against that team in the 2008 playoffs? Me neither.


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I already responded to it. Try reading the whole post for your respond. lol @ Suns affording a quality bench player (OH LIKE MARCUS BANKS?) when the owner doesn't want to go past the luxury tax. lol @ counting on two rookies IN A BEST CASE SCENARIO as big contributors off the bench.

And for the purposes of the Suns team and getting this trade accepted, trading Amare > trading Marion.