Winning rivalry games, is it a skill?

[Dids]

The presumption that rivalry games are different from other games makes the assumption that people aren't always trying their hardest to win, which I think for the vast majority of the folks involved in high level sports is kinda silly and insulting.

[damaniac]

Re: Michigan-OSU, you also forgot 95 when a 7-3 Michigan team beat a 10-0 OSU team. But I really think this is just overdone, the people who say Cooper "didn't get" the rivalry or Tressell owns Carr. Carr was a better coach than Cooper, and also ran good against him. The Sweatervest is a better coach than Carr overall and ran a bit good against him too. I know it's cool when people can pretend that either a coach has magical powers 1 game a year or that a coach who is quite good suddenly becomes a complete moron one game a year (okay, hyperbole), but the better explanation is a combination of sample size/variance and overall ability.

[RR]

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The presumption that rivalry games are different from other games makes the assumption that people aren't always trying their hardest to win, which I think for the vast majority of the folks involved in high level sports is kinda silly and insulting.

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Where it is different is for Ohio State for example under Woody Hayes and Tressel (but not Cooper and I don't know about Bruce) they would work on something for Michigan everyday.

[damaniac]

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The presumption that rivalry games are different from other games makes the assumption that people aren't always trying their hardest to win, which I think for the vast majority of the folks involved in high level sports is kinda silly and insulting.

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Where it is different is for Ohio State for example under Woody Hayes and Tressel (but not Cooper and I don't know about Bruce) they would work on something for Michigan everyday.

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The question is how much does that matter? I'm not saying it doesn't but it isn't like this establishes a causal connection either (I realize demanding such proof creates an impossible standard; I'm just sayin...). Sparty put a countdown clock in the lockerroom, similar to how Tressel said he would make OSU proud in 300whatever days. Didn't work so well for Sparty.

It's kind of like the inflamatory comment idea. David Boston or Terry Glenn or Chuck Winters makes a derogatory comment about the other team ("they're nothing" or "we'll keep doing this til we get him fired") and the other team is fired up and wins, and causal significance is attributed to the comment. Now, not saying that's false or anything, but there are all sorts of possible counter-examples too (Harbaugh guarantees a win and they do). It's just a situation where you presuppose your conclusion and find something that could plausibly support it, rather than the other way around.

[RR]

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The question is how much does that matter? I'm not saying it doesn't but it isn't like this establishes a causal connection either (I realize demanding such proof creates an impossible standard; I'm just sayin...). Sparty put a countdown clock in the lockerroom, similar to how Tressel said he would make OSU proud in 300whatever days. Didn't work so well for Sparty.

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My understanding was the idea was they worked on a play that they would save for Michigan so it wouldn't be on a tape anywhere. Of course if the other side does the same thing there probably isn't much advantage, but they DO try harder in this game. I think it is possible that what happened with Cooper is he treated it the same as any other game, if Carr emphasized the game at the expense of preparation for other games this would the source of an edge.

[vhawk01]

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The presumption that rivalry games are different from other games makes the assumption that people aren't always trying their hardest to win, which I think for the vast majority of the folks involved in high level sports is kinda silly and insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where it is different is for Ohio State for example under Woody Hayes and Tressel (but not Cooper and I don't know about Bruce) they would work on something for Michigan everyday.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question is how much does that matter? I'm not saying it doesn't but it isn't like this establishes a causal connection either (I realize demanding such proof creates an impossible standard; I'm just sayin...). Sparty put a countdown clock in the lockerroom, similar to how Tressel said he would make OSU proud in 300whatever days. Didn't work so well for Sparty.

It's kind of like the inflamatory comment idea. David Boston or Terry Glenn or Chuck Winters makes a derogatory comment about the other team ("they're nothing" or "we'll keep doing this til we get him fired") and the other team is fired up and wins, and causal significance is attributed to the comment. Now, not saying that's false or anything, but there are all sorts of possible counter-examples too (Harbaugh guarantees a win and they do). It's just a situation where you presuppose your conclusion and find something that could plausibly support it, rather than the other way around.

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Its called the narrative fallacy. It explains roughly 90% of sports journalism.

[heater]

UM was 11-0 in 2006. /nit

[KUJustin]

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The presumption that rivalry games are different from other games makes the assumption that people aren't always trying their hardest to win, which I think for the vast majority of the folks involved in high level sports is kinda silly and insulting.

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I generally agree with the OP, but I don't think I can agree with this. Most coaches will tell you that it's really hard to keep players motivated for every game. Though I suppose it applies less to a college football season due to there being so few games.

This can be a matter of game day motivation against a bad team, but it can also be a matter of preparation motivation. I could see skipping out on some extra film study to play video games or something if my team was playing a 1AA team that week.