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#71
10-31-2007, 10:28 AM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
[ QUOTE ]
The guy I represent currently denies that he even touched her. But I happen to think he's lying. My best guess is that he was cuddling her (which I don't think is a crime), that she woke up and he knew it, that he proceeded to fondle her (which I view as an awkward pass), and that it then became reasonable for him to assume consent on her part when she neglected to resist or utter a word. [/ QUOTE ] Wow. What kind of jury would convict the guy based on those facts. A girl says he touched her stomach while she was sleeping in his bed, then she woke up, but took no action to stop the touching. The guy says he didn't touch her at all. I can't imagine how any rational person could say that this guy was guilty of sexual abuse beyond a reasonable doubt. What evidence did the prosecution have that he even touched her at all other than her say so? What does the sexual abuse statute say? Even if what she is alleging is true, it seems like a pretty far cry from "sexual abuse", unless the statute is really crazy/overly broad. 
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#72
10-31-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
[ QUOTE ]
rushmore sweeps in for the headshot as usual [/ QUOTE ] I only fire a warning shot when the offense is not egregious. I felt the "He's probably a rapist, but he's my bro" perspective justified the use of deadly force. Rules of engagement, you know.
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#73
10-31-2007, 12:54 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. What kind of jury would convict the guy based on those facts. A girl says he touched her stomach while she was sleeping in his bed, then she woke up, but took no action to stop the touching. The guy says he didn't touch her at all. [/ QUOTE ] The trial lawyer, in retrospect, made a strategic error by waiving his right to a jury and letting the judge decide the facts. He made this choice because he knew that the client was pretty unlikeable on a personal level. In addition, although he currently tells me he didn't do anything and never touched her, there is a recorded statement (he doesn't know it's being recorded) where he sounds like he is apologizing to her for "misreading her signals." He interprets this conversation otherwise, but I think he's convinced himself, somehow, that he never touched her. One other curious thing. I've told this story to a number of people. And I notice that it's usually the women who are quickest to criticize the "victim" for acting so passive.
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#74
10-31-2007, 01:39 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
Why haven't you called the police yet?
Rape is serious stuff. Calling the police will do a few things: 1. They'll investigate it and get both sides of the story. 2. She will be provided with rape counselling. 3. Even if he is innocent of actual rape, the fact that he attempted to have sex with a passed out girl is reprehensible and he deserved the reputation and any press coverage. Other points: 1. Depending on the specific laws in your area, this may or may not have been actual rape (usually penetration is required). However even attempted rape is just as bad legally. 2. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that the concept of the victim being required to 'press charges' is long gone. Anyone can report a crime. 3. Tons of rapes of this sort (date rape) are not reported. It has very long lasting impact on many women, often causing serious depression even to the point of suicide attempts months or years later. She must get professional counseling. 4. She may be pissed off at you and yell at you...but 5 years from now she'll be glad you did the right thing. 5. Next time it happens, it's partly your fault if you did nothing to deter it. Again...call the police right now!
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#76
10-31-2007, 04:05 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
On a serious note...
1) He should not be the one to call the police. If she wants it reported, SHE should contact the police. 2) The stories in this thread, at a minimum, are a good education about why trying to hook up with extremely drunk girls can have very negative consequences.
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#77
10-31-2007, 04:09 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry about the gimmick accout OOT, but it's necessary. Ok, I was dating this girl for about the last month. Three weeks ago, we decided to break it off and just become friends. Obviously, we are still extremely close. Last night she went out drinking with another one of my friends who is probably her closest guy friend. She ended up falling asleep on his futon (nothing out of the ordinary-- she did this when we were dating even) when they were both drunk. At around 3 in the morning last night, she wakes up and he is trying to rape her. She has obviously been pretty shaken up today and is talking with me and her best girl friend (who also happens to be one of my best friends) and I'm not really sure what to do. Obviously, I need to help her out any way I can for now, and be someone to talk to. But outside of this, is there really anything I can do? Please be serious here, I really don't know what to do. [/ QUOTE ] You said the guy is your friend as well? How can u put hoes before bros? And staying friends with a chick after she blows you off is kinda weak. I think you need to get raped.
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#78
10-31-2007, 04:51 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
[ QUOTE ]
Why haven't you called the police yet? Rape is serious stuff. Calling the police will do a few things: 1. They'll investigate it and get both sides of the story. 2. She will be provided with rape counselling. 3. Even if he is innocent of actual rape, the fact that he attempted to have sex with a passed out girl is reprehensible and he deserved the reputation and any press coverage. Other points: 1. Depending on the specific laws in your area, this may or may not have been actual rape (usually penetration is required). However even attempted rape is just as bad legally. 2. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that the concept of the victim being required to 'press charges' is long gone. Anyone can report a crime. 3. Tons of rapes of this sort (date rape) are not reported. It has very long lasting impact on many women, often causing serious depression even to the point of suicide attempts months or years later. She must get professional counseling. 4. She may be pissed off at you and yell at you...but 5 years from now she'll be glad you did the right thing. 5. Next time it happens, it's partly your fault if you did nothing to deter it. Again...call the police right now! [/ QUOTE ] Wow. I have to disagree strongly with this post. Whether or not to file charges is entirely up to the victim. While I would agree that if what happened was an actual or attempted rape, criminal charges are warranted, it is not fair to the victim for a third party to bring the police into it. A rape trial is no picnic for the victim, and this is a pretty weak case in any event. If the victim chooses not to cooperate, there is no case. You are aware that, in most cases, hearsay is not admissible in court, aren't you? If the victim chooses not to testify, there is no rape case here. If this thing gets to court, the defense attorney will do everything he can to make her look like the world's biggest [censored]. Yes, that sucks, but that's how it is. This is going to come down to her word against his, with the burden of proof on the prosecution, and probably no physical evidence. I certainly wouldn't blame her for not wanting to put herself through that ordeal. She'll thank OP in 5 years for filing a police report without her consent? You've got to be kidding.
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#79
10-31-2007, 07:57 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
Yay, someone got my Kids reference!! (I spent 15 mins tryin' to find pic of Casper in bathtub)
In all seriousness though, I don't understand OP. Why do you think a bunch of people on a message board, with no knowledge of either the victim, or the accused will give you an opinion that is remotely accurate? I mean, [censored], there are unstable people in this world. The girl could be batshit insane, the guy could be an absolute jackass, the OP himself could be an idiot that likes to exaggerate, point is that given your OP, there's nowhere near enough information to give an opinion beyond "Rape is evil, death sentence!!" or "Hey, she was drunk, probably wanted it," and you are going to have a buncha people reply somewhere between those two extremes with no real consensus or resolution.
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#80
10-31-2007, 11:35 PM
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Re: VERY serious friend related situation
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This guy deserves his ass beat, he is a rapist. If she didnt wake up she would probably be pregnant right now. God damn I cant believe the stupid people in this forum. How would you guys feel if your girlfriend or sister got raped or attempted to be raped? Girls don't make up stuff like this unless they have proven to be compulsive liars. [/ QUOTE ] just deserves a LOL have u yet to realize how crazy ALL broads in this world are? [/ QUOTE ]
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