|
|
#21
06-25-2007, 10:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
doing this stuff is SO BAD. Don't talk about yourself at the table like this, why give away anything? UGH. [/ QUOTE ] Trust me that (i) I don't go out of my way to bring the subject up; (ii) it's painfully obvious from my clumsy chip-handling anyway. 
|
|
#22
06-25-2007, 11:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] doing this stuff is SO BAD. Don't talk about yourself at the table like this, why give away anything? UGH. [/ QUOTE ] Trust me that (i) I don't go out of my way to bring the subject up; (ii) it's painfully obvious from my clumsy chip-handling anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Ive been playing live for 6 years and still cant handle the chips so dont feel bad.
|
|
#23
06-25-2007, 11:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: It seems like you really want to see a showdown vs. a guy who has been unpredicable, is stuck, and will raise weak holdings. I don't like the raise, but if I raise and he re-pops, I would still see a showdown - you don't have to catch him going off the deep end very often to make this worthwhile (8 BB going to the river, then your raising adventure w/ george means you only need to be good about 1-14, correct?). I still don't see the value in raising - I'd like to here your thought behind it. [/ QUOTE ] At the time I guess I didn't see him as being quite as loose as he was after I'd played the 100/200 session with him and heavily discounted 65 because of preflop and JT because he called two cold on the flop. But even with a heavy discount the hand combos probably do not work out right often enough for me to raise, especially since it looks like the SB holds some of the cards that I want George to hold. [ QUOTE ] Hand 2: Raising the river seems to have just as much equity as calling. Your turn check means he would lead out here with 2 pair/set/TPTK (maybe)/flush/bluff If he has a flush, obviously you lose another bet - if he was bluffing or had a weak hand then he wont call another bet anyways. But he would probably pay you off with pair/set (possible given that the board is high cards). Eh, seems about even EV to me. [/ QUOTE ] He can also have my hand (KT) a lot. I dunno, I figure his range looks something like: 5% flush 20% KT (chop) 5% smaller straight (T8) 25% two pair (or set) 30% one pair 15% hand that's essentially a bluff (T9) Arbitrarily I'd guess that he calls with all two pair+ and maybe the very best of his one-pair hands, like KQ or something, say 5% of the 30% of his one pair hands. If that's the case then my equity on the raise if the pot were heads up is +.25 BB (skipping some math there). So that's how much equity I need to collect from the overcall to make the softplay correct. And I think I might very well collect that much equity, because SB's range consists of a *lot* of weak one-pair hands *and* he'll pay off with them, but his range of hands that are strong enough to call two bets cold on the river but *not* bet the river after the turn gets checked through is very small. I mean, I think his typical hand here is like J6s or T9o.
|
|
#24
06-26-2007, 01:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] doing this stuff is SO BAD. Don't talk about yourself at the table like this, why give away anything? UGH. [/ QUOTE ] Trust me that (i) I don't go out of my way to bring the subject up; (ii) it's painfully obvious from my clumsy chip-handling anyway. [/ QUOTE ] You've had 3(?) years to fix this since I played with you last. C'mon Nate, represent!
|
|
#25
06-26-2007, 02:02 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
haven't read any comments but hand 1 terrible river 3 bet, I would never make this raise here against anyone. hand 2 ugh? how do you make the river 3 bet in hand one and just call here. also: [ QUOTE ] We'd had a conversation earlier about players that come from live backgrounds versus Internet backgrounds; he recognizes that I'm a good example of the latter and he's certainly a good example of the former. [/ QUOTE ] doing this stuff is SO BAD. Don't talk about yourself at the table like this, why give away anything? UGH. hand 3 I 3bet flop 90% of the time against almost anyone especially "good tricky" players. hand 4 raise preflop.. as played fold flop why get yourself in deeper here. [/ QUOTE ] I pretty much agree with all of this. Calling on hand 1 seems standard. I don't think a raise is quite as bad as Vehn does, but it sure smells like 5-card hand. Hand 2 I'd raise, I think the 30% one-pair range is light and the chop range is too high. No reason to expect an overcall given the action (or lack thereof) so far. Hand 3 is just gas all the way in that situation. 3-bet preflop I think is real standard and essential against someone with that profile. If she's that tough with position why encourage her to keep raping your blinds by playing passive with big hands like 88. Hand 4, just raise preflop. Not a fan of limping here against a real good shorhanded player. Fold the flop and move along.
|
|
#26
06-26-2007, 02:19 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] doing this stuff is SO BAD. Don't talk about yourself at the table like this, why give away anything? UGH. [/ QUOTE ] Trust me that (i) I don't go out of my way to bring the subject up; (ii) it's painfully obvious from my clumsy chip-handling anyway. [/ QUOTE ] You've had 3(?) years to fix this since I played with you last. C'mon Nate, represent! [/ QUOTE ] My live play is generally limited to the twice a year I play in Vegas and the once every few months I play down at the boats here in Chicago. But increasingly I'm thinking that I'm just inherently a klutz and I'd still be largely the same way even if I was a regular. At least I didn't get called on any string-bets!
|
|
#27
06-26-2007, 02:28 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 I'd raise, I think the 30% one-pair range is light and the chop range is too high. No reason to expect an overcall given the action (or lack thereof) so far. [/ QUOTE ] If the 30% one-pair range is light -- and it might well be, though I don't think he's the type to make super thin value-bets -- that's actually more of an argument for calling, because this particular player is very capable of making a laydown, and the only thing that one-pair beats on that board is a bluff. The SB also had a specific tendency to calldown very light when the action had been slow on the postflop streets -- I think he sees a showdown with any pair, and maybe even ace-high. I'm actually like 95% certain that my play is right, but it might have been one of those "had to be there" things.
|
|
#28
06-26-2007, 02:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hand 2 I'd raise, I think the 30% one-pair range is light and the chop range is too high. No reason to expect an overcall given the action (or lack thereof) so far. [/ QUOTE ] If the 30% one-pair range is light -- and it might well be, though I don't think he's the type to make super thin value-bets -- that's actually more of an argument for calling, because this particular player is very capable of making a laydown, and the only thing that one-pair beats on that board is a bluff. The SB also had a specific tendency to calldown very light when the action had been slow on the postflop streets -- I think he sees a showdown with any pair, and maybe even ace-high. I'm actually like 95% certain that my play is right, but it might have been one of those "had to be there" things. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I guess I don't view a bet with a Q or even a J as a thin value bet given the action. At 8-16 maybe, but not 60-120.
|
|
#30
06-26-2007, 02:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Few Bellagio hands
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] doing this stuff is SO BAD. Don't talk about yourself at the table like this, why give away anything? UGH. [/ QUOTE ] Trust me that (i) I don't go out of my way to bring the subject up; (ii) it's painfully obvious from my clumsy chip-handling anyway. [/ QUOTE ] You used to have some yuppie 20-something job, right? Act like it.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
