Top set 3b pot 200 bb deep

[Profish2285]

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Wait...what? If we call his raise then we've got a $129 pot with $30 left behind. We're certainly not folding the river under any circumstances, so why not get it all in when there are still draws in his range?

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This is my exact thinking of why shoving is best.

[Speedlimits]

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You dont think just shoving here is optimal? There are a decent number of rivers that can kill our action or our hand.

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yeah but when he c.rs turn his range is heavily weighted towards a 5x/straight. most 17/15s dont semi-bluff deep stacked.

[Speedlimits]

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betting turn is good.... just because he c/red you this time doesn't mean sh.it.

call his small raise too.

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Wait...what? If we call his raise then we've got a $129 pot with $30 left behind. We're certainly not folding the river under any circumstances, so why not get it all in when there are still draws in his range?

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yeah but ur assuming he shoves every river which is not the case. and yeah draws are in his range but a straight is more likely.

[Profish2285]

I assume he is shoving river as well because using your logic of a 17/15 not getting crazy here, I also dont see a 17/15 putting in 70% of his stack to fold on the river getting amazing odds on a shove.

[ICMoney]

I said shove before and I'm happy with that.

I'm wondering what you guys do with:

66
77

Could we shove 77 and fold 66 or is 66=77 here?

I don't think 88=77 in this situation.

[Profish2285]

I was thinking the same. I think I can throw away 66 but not 77 here. 77 still is ahead of 66. 66 is only ahead of two pair.

[doppelganger]

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betting turn is good.... just because he c/red you this time doesn't mean sh.it.

call his small raise too.

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Wait...what? If we call his raise then we've got a $129 pot with $30 left behind. We're certainly not folding the river under any circumstances, so why not get it all in when there are still draws in his range?

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yeah but ur assuming he shoves every river which is not the case. and yeah draws are in his range but a straight is more likely.

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I think he probably shoves most rivers unless he's afraid of a club and checks his straight through. I suppose it doesn't matter much if we flat call the turn as long as we're calling 100% of rivers UI and pushing if we fill up.

If no club falls, it's all going in regardless. If he checks a straight when a club falls, we save $30. If we improve then he's still calling with almost all of his turn raising range. I suppose on balance it might save us a few bets when we're behind so maybe a call is reasonable. In the heat of the moment though, I probably just push and be done with it.

[Speedlimits]

this hand is actually really close on the river. if river blanks and villain shoves. he will have a straight like 80-90% of the time.

i would still call because we only have to be right like ~15% of the time but if we were 150BB deep i would fold.

when i say fold i mean fold to a river shove not turn.

[Profish2285]

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i would still call because we only have to be right like ~15% of the time but if we were 150BB deep i would fold.

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That makes no sense, you should want to fold this if we get deeper not more shallow.

[Speedlimits]

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That makes no sense, you should want to fold this if we get deeper not more shallow.

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we are getting implied odds to fill up.