$22: bubble flop decision

[45suited]

In order to put this hand into context, you need to see how completely retarded the other shortstack is. This hand took place a couple hands before the hand in question:

PartyPoker $22 Speed Tournament, Big Blind is t600 (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t7485)
Hero (t1300)
SB (t8265)
BB (t2950)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t1300 (All-in)</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++


Now, onto the hand in question. First, another 2+2er said that I should push preflop. I maintain that this is terrible, given that the bigstack would be getting 1.75:1 and that calling won't dent his stack. Meanwhile, I have J high and the other shortstack laughs all the way to the bank.

Now, on the flop, of course I think I have the best hand. But is it enough to push over the top? (Calling is out of the question.) I realize that he's probably auto betting any flop, but given the drawish nature of the board and the retardedness of the other shortstack, who folds here?

PartyPoker $22 Speed Tournament, Big Blind is t600 (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t7365)
Button (t2050)
SB (t8385)
Hero (t2200)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t300, Hero checks

Flop: (t1200) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">SB bets t600</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font>

[jeffraider]

I'd definitely fold here, and yeah, I hate shoving preflop too. I think this would be a fold even if the other shorty wasn't terrible, but since he is I think it's getting into "easy" fold territory.

[wiggs73]

what jeff said.

[kevkev60614]

Good post, as usual. Welcome back. Stay awhile.

I check pf unless I have a solid read that I have real FE pf. Too often against this stack at the $22s you'll be called by K2o or Q8s or something; essentially I check for all the reasons you've already stated.

On the flop, though, I think you have to push. You're too far ahead of villain and there are too many chips in the pot.

On a side note, I think the fact that the other shortstack is bad is kind of irrelevant here. There's a bunch of different kinds of bad. If shorty was the kind of bad where you knew he'd bust in the next three hands, this'd be an easy fold. But he's the kind of bad where he's determined to slink into third, and that doesn't help me find a fold here, if that makes sense. If I fold here, I'm worried I'll want to fold more +EV situations in the future to try to outlast villain. It's also worth noting that 2nd or 1st isn't unattainable with these stacks and blinds.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I like your line, villain should call with anything if you go over the top. Folding seems better to me. Pushing preflop into the big stack that just limped is not a goot idea... with that hand anyway.

[GtrHtr]

Button (t2050)

this is the biggest argument against shoving preflop.

Now as for your read on the flop, I'd go with it unless you think you will have another shot at a shove or, you think the retarded button will reward you by busting going through the blinds.

[kevstreet]

I've really pulled back the reigns pushing when SB limps in this spot. Not only do marginal hands call, but I've seen some monsters in the SB limping as well.