2/4 live unbeatable?

[John_Brian_K]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even in an unraked game I say this is an impossible game to beat it the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

why

because people dont respect your raises?

LOLZ

fwiw i am amazed at how many times we have to keep repeating ourselves on this forum. YOU MAKE MONEY WHEN PEOPLE MAKE BAD CALLS. is anybody listening? anyone?



[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you can make money when a person or 2 makes bad calls. Try pokerstoving your results with top 10 hands against a random range with an average of 7-10 people seeing the flop. And please do not kid yourself to think when you raise in 2-4LHE you will thin the field because in LHE you raise NOT to thin the field, but build the pot.

[threeducks]

[ QUOTE ]
No because its 4 bucks! and they already have 8 bucks in the pot! lol I have NEVER heard of a good self respecting player playing 2-4LHE and cleaning up the tourists. And the guy who said an old guy said he has made 40k playing 2-4LHE ...... I mean I cannot even describe how unbelievably gullable that guy has to be to believe THAT story. 40k in 2-4LHE REALLY? really? I mean really?

And he said this guy is rich (they ALL are at the casino man-so they say anyway) does this add up to you guys? A rich guy who likes to play poker goes to the poker room everyday for THAT many hours and decides to play 2-4LHE like A ROCK!? lol

I cannot even describe how funny this is to me right now.

No offense intended honestly, but wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I am just a fish - that is over many years - like 15-20 years. That is about 1-2 bb an hour. So, why is that hard to believe? He is 75-80 years old and plays for entertainment. He drives a 120k car. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I have watched him play on and off for 5 years and I think that he beats the 2/4 and the 3/6 games, but not for much - he said to me that the wins or loses at this game is not going to change his or my life style - oh, yeah, I am rich as well not that it matters. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Just trying to add my 2 cents that the game can be beat but not by much.

[fishyak]

[ QUOTE ]
10 handed 2-4LHE with a 2 BB. IF everyone at the table played the game like a 10-20LHE guy plays the game they will lose. IF everyone at the table played the game like it was a 2-4LHE game they will lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you present any written authority to back this contention? Do you have any relevant experience that you would like to share that supports your contention?

No offense intended honestly, but wow.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even in an unraked game I say this is an impossible game to beat it the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

why

because people dont respect your raises?

LOLZ

fwiw i am amazed at how many times we have to keep repeating ourselves on this forum. YOU MAKE MONEY WHEN PEOPLE MAKE BAD CALLS. is anybody listening? anyone?



[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you can make money when a person or 2 makes bad calls. Try pokerstoving your results with top 10 hands against a random range with an average of 7-10 people seeing the flop. And please do not kid yourself to think when you raise in 2-4LHE you will thin the field because in LHE you raise NOT to thin the field, but build the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you think the most profitable game is when you have AA raise pf and get 1 caller, or win the blinds?

you really dont understand limit hold em. you think beating the game is about winning the most pots. its not. its about winning the most money over time.

to put it simply, pokerstove AA vs 9 random hands, and calculate your equity vs how much money you put into the pot preflop. the more money people put in with other hands, the more money you make.

this is all i'm going to say about this, as its obvious to me that you arent going to be convinced no matter what arguments are thrown out there. in my experience, people who think that low limit "bingo" games cant be beat because players play "so bad" never change their minds.

im sorry this is probably coming off as rude. i'm just a bit annoyed that people keep presenting this argument over and over after it's been refuted, OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall, honestly.

[jesse8888]

Wow....fun discussion, really guys.....

My two cents, as it applies to live, full ring, small stakes play. WARNING: I'm going to ramble...it is inevitable.

There is a practical maximum to how badly you can beat any poker game in which everyone basically "knows the rules". Now there are players who play as if they don't even know the rules (I watched a guy rack off 1600 dollars in a 6/12 game in 90 minutes once. He did not know the rules, or at least that the objective was to win the little disc things), but in general, people have some sense of what is going on.

I believe that practical maximum is around 3-4 big bets per hour. I just don't think the game of limit hold em is structured such that it is possible for your opponents to make more than that many mistakes against you in the average hour. In a 2/4 game with a rake + tip of 5 dollars per hand, someone can win 4 big bets per hour by dragging a pot every 30 minutes and only beat the game for 1.5 big per hour.

A similar thread appeared in the mid stakes forum a while back, and the topic was basically "where does the money come from?" I think that the overwhelming majority of the money comes from the super-donks, the ones that don't even know the rules, the ones that run at like -4 big bets per hour or worse. If you fill your table with these guys, you can make a killing, but in general there are only going to be a few of them in the game. Also, they are important because there play masks the mistakes of other bad players (this is called schooling I think) by padding the pot.

(I told you I'd ramble).

As to making 40 dollars a day playing 2/4 for 15 hours a week....sure, it's possible, but only if the players are truly terrible. Why would a 65 year old rich man even enjoy that sort of game? Seems odd to me, but whatever....

Many 2/4 games are beatable. Some, those filled entirely with people who kind of understand the rules, are most certainly not.

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even in an unraked game I say this is an impossible game to beat it the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

why

because people dont respect your raises?

LOLZ

fwiw i am amazed at how many times we have to keep repeating ourselves on this forum. YOU MAKE MONEY WHEN PEOPLE MAKE BAD CALLS. is anybody listening? anyone?



[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you can make money when a person or 2 makes bad calls. Try pokerstoving your results with top 10 hands against a random range with an average of 7-10 people seeing the flop. And please do not kid yourself to think when you raise in 2-4LHE you will thin the field because in LHE you raise NOT to thin the field, but build the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good God. It's not that he's saying it that astounds me. It's the absolute certainty in his tone.

[fishyak]

[ QUOTE ]
Good God. It's not that he's saying it that astounds me. It's the absolute certainty in his tone.

[/ QUOTE ]

He hasn't been back in a while. Maybe the meth has worn off by now.

[bellatrix]

Yeah, it's probably beatable.
Not by me, though, because I start playing bad at 2/4. I usually have no respect for the people playing 2/4 and I make bad calls/raises, when I shouldn't even be IN the pot. I know it's totally my fault and I should bring my A game, but I always go like "2/4, meh!".

[Gauge]

well I just came back to check on this thread.. got a lot of feedback. It makes sense that it is beatable and of course I want to make more money so I will move up when I can. Im currently building a roll the working mans way and its going well. Took $100 of my money, doubled it and have been playing with just the + money since. Foxwoods also doesnt run a 3/6 game so i gotta ride the 2/4 until I get to $2400 which is a safe bankroll for that level from what Ive read around here.

As always thanks to all for the feedback

[BadBigBabar]

take 200 dollars and sit at the 4/8 sometime; it's basically as soft as the 2/4. waiting for $2400 is foolish and wasting money.