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  #1  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:03 PM
manku manku is offline
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Default 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

This is not a troll, and yes, this is a real game. NL Home game, $500 buy in, $10 single blind.

It's the end of the day, and it being dealers choice, kidbundles decides to deal Omaha high only, with 14 (fourteen!) hole cards to each player. (We were down to three handed).

I'm dealt Ace suited, trip tens & two fives (good for straights) and a bunch of other stuff.

I call ten, as does dealer. Small blind (aka. DonkeyKing) raises to $50. I call and dealer shoves for $400 more. SB calls. They have me covered slightly. Last hand of evening, feeling really stoopid, I call.

I figure the dealer for AAxx suited at minimum.

With fourteen cards dealt, aren't we all about 33% ev?

As for results:

Flop: 2-2-6 (I have a deuce, but SB has 6-6)

Turn: K (I have King)

River: 9 (I have Nine).

SB, who clearly had worst preflop hand, scoops!

Manku
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:06 PM
eule eule is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

14 card omaha? thats interesting, mind posting the rules? ive once played 9 card omaha (discard 2 after betting pre,flop, turn and 1 on the river so u got 2 in hand).
i found the NL part of it quite stupid as it turned out to be a preflop shove fest
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:10 PM
2handed 2handed is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

This isnt omaha, since I believe omaha is commonly played with four hole cards. Seems like fun though. If you don't have trips or quads in your hand preflop allin seems standard, even if you put him on AAxxxxxxxxxxxx suited.
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Old 11-30-2007, 02:46 PM
eule eule is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

yeah thats what we figured out, too. PL is a must
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2007, 03:40 PM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

it sounds like your hand is bad enough to pass.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:21 PM
Kala1928 Kala1928 is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

[ QUOTE ]
This isnt omaha, since I believe omaha is commonly played with four hole cards. Seems like fun though. If you don't have trips or quads in your hand preflop allin seems standard, even if you put him on AAxxxxxxxxxxxx suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

If its played by the holdem omaha rules (you must use two hole cards and three community cards to make a five card hand) then it can be regarded as "14 card omaha". You could play 3-card, 5-card etc omaha aswell.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:37 PM
CrushinFelt CrushinFelt is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

[ QUOTE ]
it sounds like your hand is bad enough to pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was what I first thought when I read your hand. I instamuck.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2007, 05:17 PM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

i think some people in this thread are way underestimating how bad of shape a many-card hand can be in. sure it feels like you have a million ways to win, but your opponents are going to have just as many ways to have you dominated. for an incredibly rough idea, try some 6-way preflop all-in matchups in twodimes with 3 pretty junky hands against 3 pretty good hands and see how often the junky hands win.

i definitely think that the OP should pass.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2007, 06:26 PM
abscr abscr is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

I wouldn't call a 3-way allin without a 5 and T; 3 cards out of 6,7,8,9; 1 face card; 2 aces (assuming you have a matching flush card with them); and no 3 of a kinds.

Obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I imagine they'd be willing to push almost any hand, so I'm looking for decent hands to go in with. When I'm playing a game I don't know much about, I try to find a decently strong hand that has a good edge over cards my completely oblivious foes would be playing, especially for a 3-way all in.
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:23 PM
Buzz Buzz is offline
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Default Re: 14 card NL Omaha...does anyone fold?

Manku - Interesting. (Wacky too).

Roughly half the time the final five card board on the river will have a pair (or two pairs or trips or a full house - but most of the almost half is simply one pair). When the board is paired, you want to either have quads or an overboat (pair in your hand matching a board card higher than the board pair).

Thus this is a game where you want your starting hand to have some big pairs.

But if the board is paired half the time, it's also unpaired half the time. It's possible trips will be the nuts on the river, but trips is relatively rare.

When the board is unpaired, there's a fair chance a flush will be possible.

I'm going to ignore straight flushes.

4*C(13,5)+4*C(13,4)(39-12)+4*C(13,3)(39)(36)/2 = 885456 (that's the total number of five card boards than enable a flush) <font color="green">Wrong. See edit.</font>

That's out of 52*48*44*40*36/120 = 1317888 possible non-paired boards.

Then 885456/1317888 = 0.671875 <font color="green">Wrong. See edit.</font>


Wow! Seems too high. Two thirds of the time, when the board has no pair, there are either 3, 4, or 5 cards of the same suit on the board? Whatever. At least when the board is not paired, it is flushed a good deal of the time. Two thirds though? Intuitively it seems too high. Whatever. Maybe someone who knows how to do the correct math will either correct me or affirm the result I got. (But I've checked it over a few times and that's what I keep getting). <font color="green">It is too high. See edit.</font>


If true, roughly five times out of six, the five card board will either have a pair (enabling quads or a full house) or the five card board will enable a flush (or straight flush. Could also be a straight flush possible if the board is paired). <font color="green">Wrong. See edit.</font>


So after high pairs, I think suited aces rule.

That's what I'd look for in starting hands, high pairs (for quads or overboats) and suited aces (for flushes).

That's very crudely figured. I left out consideration of three of a kind on the board and some other stuff that's relatively uncommon.

This thread probably belongs in the other games forum, but I'll leave it here where it will gradually fade into the archives. <font color="green">Wrong. See edit.</font>


Buzz

edit:
Found my mistake! (I divided the last term by 2 instead of 12).
545688 is the number of unpaired five card boards that enable a flush.

545688/1317888 = 0.4140625

That seems more reasonable. Roughly 2 out of every 5 unpaired boards enable a flush.

5/10 boards have pairs.
2/10 boards are unpaired and enable flushes.
3/10 boards are unpaired and donít enable flushes.


Doesn't change my conclusions about what to want in a starting hand:
Look for starting hands with high pairs (for quads or overboats) and with suited aces (for flushes). High cards, even if unpaired are better than low cards in this game. Avoid small pairs, lest you make under-boats.

I agree with Iggy that threads about 14 card (or whatever) Omaha-high belong in this forum.

With 14 cards, it's hard to imagine a hand not being "coordinated" to some extent.

Buzz





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