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  #1  
Old 11-23-2007, 07:24 PM
registrar registrar is offline
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Default I have a plan

$50r. I normally don't post these hands since people used to make fun of me when I did. However, because of the image that I have presented to the raiser I think that calling here looks massively strong and gives me options post-flop, given stack sizes. Villain is good. He's opened EP a few times. All he has seen me do in four or so orbits is fold or open push (once to double through with AA).

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t400/t800
(Ante: t75)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t19537
UTG+1: t21970
MP1: t27949
MP2: t29850
CO: t9670
Hero: t9185
SB: t18864
BB: t13321

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to t1855</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls t1855 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t3655)</font>
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2007, 07:59 PM
zizazziza zizazziza is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan

why are you calling off over 20% from an EP? I mean do you think that he is not c-betting/forced to call you ai enough that this play is +EV?
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2007, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan

Yeah, I think that unless he's opening the top 20% of his range, I can take this away enough to turn a profit, or at least that it's possibly as good a gamble as I'm likely to get at this stage with the blinds about to go up.

If you're villain, with these stacks, and a tight unknown flats you, you'll have to be fully loaded in the hole or hit the flop pretty hard to call of the rest of my stack here?
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2007, 08:13 PM
djk123 djk123 is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan

meh. usually i just assume they are stupid. i understand where you're coming from ( i have tried this before) but I don't think it really works in practice.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2007, 08:35 PM
shaundeeb shaundeeb is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan

you need to do this vs someone who knows you well not vs an unknown.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2007, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan

Hmmn. You might be right. OTOH, as I say, villain was good, he was opening small pretty regularly in EP. The AA hand, I'd pushed 4k the previous hand and then pushed 5k, I got a call and he tanked in the BB. I felt sure he was calling otherwise and so I know he'd noted this. Were it not for that hand, I wouldn't have tried this.

Anyway, what I didn't consider was that the BB may then call very wide.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2007, 08:33 AM
ASPoker8 ASPoker8 is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan

The idea here is that he should perceive your range to be KK+ or whatever.

But you don't really give us enough info or any sort of reason to believe hes going to just c/f a lot.
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2007, 08:38 AM
Mench Mench is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan

though he should perceive you to be super strong, he wont imo.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2007, 08:40 AM
Yoshi63 Yoshi63 is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan

Don't mean to hijack away from the hand, but

[ QUOTE ]
....or at least that it's possibly as good a gamble as I'm likely to get at this stage with the blinds about to go up.

[/ QUOTE ]

...I was wondering to myself about a week ago, whether it's correct to take slightly -EV gambles when you are shortstacked. Letting the blinds hit you is -EV, so I assume this is part of the arguement for getting your chips in before you get too short.

I'm not sure I'm explaining this well, and it's probably pretty basic. Say you find yourself UTG with 6 BB's, with a hand which mathmatically is slightly -EV to shove (given the different calling ranges of everyone, just assume we know it's barely -EV). Is it correct to make a -cEV shove in order to avoid the -EV effect of hitting the blinds?
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan

[ QUOTE ]
The idea here is that he should perceive your range to be KK+ or whatever.

But you don't really give us enough info or any sort of reason to believe hes going to just c/f a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can bet/fold too, assuming the blinds fold.

As for how strong I look, well, obviously it's kind of difficult to give enough info but I had done nothing since he'd been at the table except open shove twice, when he was in the blinds, once showing down AA.

He seemed pretty good. I'd be very wary in his shoes. I posted a similar hand quite a long time ago but I reversed it and everyone said, check fold, villain is loaded. I think if I I'd done the same here, and asked for button's range, with the read that he should have on me, the consensus would be that button is clearly loaded. Not KK+ necessarily, but more often than not stacking off.

There are two problems. One is that I had no read on BB, who's getting a good price. Two is that 'he seemed pretty good' is probably not solid enough reasoning. And, of course, he has to think that I'm pretty good and not just calling with anything pretty and no plan. I mean, I was but I did have a plan. Lol.

So, in all, I don't this is as terrible as it might at first appear. Which isn't to say it was good but I thought it was at least interesting.
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