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  #11  
Old 05-25-2007, 12:39 PM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

[ QUOTE ]
(I would be interested to see things on the low end: is the 10th percentile significantly stronger or weaker in CP2-7 than in CP high? It may make a lot more sense in 2-7 to weaken the front in order bolster the middle.)

[/ QUOTE ]

CP high - front

10% K32
20 KQJ
30 AQ6
40 AKT
50 552
60 88T
70 TT9
80 QQ8
90 KKQ

CP 2-7 - front

10 KQT
20 AK8
30 88J
40 JJ8
50 QQK
60 KKJ
70 AA6
80 AAQ
90 333
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2007, 01:42 PM
2461Badugi 2461Badugi is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

Interesting. CP has its big jump in value between 40% and 70%, while CP27 does it between 20% and 40%

Can we get enough data to graph these? I think it would be nifty.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2007, 02:11 PM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. CP has its big jump in value between 40% and 70%, while CP27 does it between 20% and 40%

Can we get enough data to graph these? I think it would be nifty.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of us could actually break down and buy the Smolen book. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Or, I could make the trivial changes needed to evaluate high -only hands and generate a new data set.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2007, 02:35 PM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. CP has its big jump in value between 40% and 70%, while CP27 does it between 20% and 40%

Can we get enough data to graph these? I think it would be nifty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Graph? Did sombody say graph? I've been thinking about a graph, and I have Smolen's book. I was thinking about the middle hands. There are ~7463 distinct poker hands. If we indexed the CP high middle hands with a royal flush = 1, and indexed the CP 2-7 middle hands with 75432 = 1, we could do a nice comparative graph of all three hands for the two games. No time now, but maybe this weekend I'll look at it. We could even throw in "unconstrained" values...
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  #15  
Old 05-27-2007, 04:39 AM
donger donger is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

Wow, this is good info. I have nothing constructive to add, but thanks for doing this.
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  #16  
Old 06-17-2007, 02:10 AM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

I was out of town for a while, so I just started collecting some data. Although the WSOP and the U.S. Open are underway, the question on everyone's lips seems to be, "When can we see some graphs?"

I took some middle-hand data from Mr. Smolen's book and Mr. Gritter's link. I then converted the hands to their rank among the 2,598,960 possible 5-card poker hands.

Soley as a matter of convention, I always took the worst case senario. If a flush was listed as J9 high, I used J9432. If a hand was listed as queens full, I used QQQ22.

Likewise, the best high hand, a Royal Flush, would be #4 as there are four of them, and for lowball calculations a 75432 bicycle would be #1020.

Bellow are two graphs of the same data.


Now the same data but graphed on a log index.



As I'd suspect, the 2-7 straightens out much more than the CP middle hand.
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2007, 02:22 AM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

Here are a couple of graphs of the front 3-cards hands for CP and CP2-7. Data from Smolens and Gritter.

The first one shows data by hand rank among 22,100 possible hands.

The second graph show the same data by the percentile ranking (ranking/22,100). Using percentiles will allow the presentation of 3-card and 5-card hand data on the same graph.



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  #18  
Old 06-19-2007, 01:09 PM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

I put up some new data, from a 10M-hand sample. (These files are pretty large, 236KB for the backs, 356KB for the middles, and 28KB for the fronts.)

http://www.lowballgurus.com/cp27/10M-backs-2.txt
http://www.lowballgurus.com/cp27/10M-middles-2.txt
http://www.lowballgurus.com/cp27/10M-fronts-2.txt

http://www.lowballgurus.com/cp27/10M-backs-3.txt
http://www.lowballgurus.com/cp27/10M-middles-3.txt
http://www.lowballgurus.com/cp27/10M-fronts-3.txt

I put up the distributions from two different iterations over the same set of hands, to illustrate how the maximally exploitive strategy switches strength between the front and the back/middle. There are about 2% fewer pairs in front in "3" than in "2".
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  #19  
Old 06-19-2007, 01:53 PM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

[ QUOTE ]
There are about 2% fewer pairs in front in "3" than in "2".

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems like a lot, but maybe it's not--have to think about it. Hmmmm..... maybe a graph....
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  #20  
Old 06-19-2007, 02:02 PM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: Distribution of CP2-7 Hand Values

Here's all three, graphed as percentiles of total hands. (Original data set.)

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