Betting on the river in back to back hands

[Hollywade]

These hands go pretty well together. They happened back to back and involve the same opponent.

Full Tilt Poker, $10 + $1 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 80/160 Blinds, 8 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: 7,780
Hero (UTG): 7,100
UTG+1: 10,460
MP1: 17,194
MP2: 5,070
CO: 4,220
BTN: 1,740
SB: 5,235

Pre-Flop: (240) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero calls 160, 3 folds, CO calls 160, BTN folds, SB calls 80, BB checks

Flop: (640) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 500</font>, 2 folds, BB calls 500

Turn: (1,640) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 1,400</font>, BB calls 1,400

River: (4,440) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 5,040 and is All-In</font>,

For the most part, I like the way I played this hand. Not that long ago, I probably would have checked the flop hoping for a bet that I could raise. However, the more I lead out, the more I like it.

As far as the bet sizes are concerned, I like the amounts I bet on the flop and turn. However, once we got to the river, I didn't like my stack relative to the pot.

I used to try to bet 1/2 the pot or less here, hoping to just get some value for my hand. I've been reading a lot of this forum lately and I think something I read in one of Bond18's posts changed my thinking here. Obviously the goal is to get maximum value. I ultimately decided just to push for a couple reasons:

1) It might look like a last desperate attempt to steal the pot.
2) If he's willing to call 2,500, he's probably willing to call twice that

The range of hands that I'm putting him on is Ax (possibly two pair), Ax with a flush draw, or just a flush draw. I basically just hoped he had enough of a hand to pay me off on the river.

Thoughts?


Full Tilt Poker, $10 + $1 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 100/200 Blinds, 8 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: 5,720
Hero (BB): 9,480
UTG: 10,460
UTG+1: 17,194
MP1: 5,070
MP2: 4,060
CO: 1,740
BTN: 5,075

Pre-Flop: (300) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls 200, 4 folds, SB calls 100, Hero checks

Flop: (600) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 460</font>, UTG+1 folds, SB calls 460

Turn: (1,520) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (1,520) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 500</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to 1,000</font>, Hero calls 500

Results: 3,520 Pot

In the next hand, I went back to the old tactic of sissy betting the river. I just felt I had to get some value for the hand, even if it was just a little bit.

When he checked the river, I was quite certain my flush was good. I didn't put him on a very strong hand. I would have expected him to raise the flop or lead the turn with a 9. I thought he might just have a king with no kicker. Assuming he had a weak made hand, I decided to bet just 500.

Thoughts?

[jchauvin]

1) i'd probably raise preflop, but it's no big deal either way so whatever, you're deep enough. flop/turn good. river it'd be nice to have less than a potsized bet making a shove more natural, but you bet about as much as you could on the turn to build the pot as much as possible. i guess the shove is fine. the better the player i think he is the more likely he is to lay down an A, so reads would be nice. again though it seems fine.

hand 2) fine but i'd go like 800-900 on river. he's not folding any king for a little over half pot when he's checked the whole way. call the raise.

[Pokerfarian]

I like hand 1. I guess maybe if we bet 600 on flop, if called pot is 1840, we can bet 1600 there &amp; if called pot is 5040 &amp; we can shove for 4740 maybe minutely better but that's not the sort've thing that is very workoutable in game &amp; your line is good.
Hand 2 I like flop/turn, river is interesting. I guess "if he's paying off a bet it's because he has a K, and if so he's paying off 1000 so bet that" is close enough to true to make that best, though I'm not totally sure.

[Win.by.TKo]

I have no problem with any of the play until that last river. Yes, you are trying to get value. I'd try to get a little more value, around half the pot (t750).

I'm jumping for joy at the reraise and would push instead of call.

[JesseB_11]

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I'm jumping for joy at the reraise and would push instead of call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the river raise is best here. Pushing only get called by hands that beat you and folds hands that you beat

[Win.by.TKo]

You're right. Pushing may not be wise here as the stacks are too large for a push. However, I would still consider a reraise. If you're confident your flush is good, then why not reraise, trusting your read?

[M1cKmAcK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I'm jumping for joy at the reraise and would push instead of call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the river raise is best here. Pushing only get called by hands that beat you and folds hands that you beat

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I don't do anything but call here... imo any other play is pretty bad. I wouldn't be suprised to see K9 or somethin crazy tho.

[wylies]

Hand 1 looks good.

Hand 2 go 800-1000 on river, as played just call the raise for reasons JesseB listed.

[TDouble]

Regarding Hand 1......

[ QUOTE ]
The range of hands that I'm putting him on is Ax (possibly two pair), Ax with a flush draw, or just a flush draw. I basically just hoped he had enough of a hand to pay me off on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This completely contradicts your bet size then

[erc007]

1st hand looks good, river is not a big overbet, since you bet so big on the turn. Checking this flop would be awful IMO.

2nd hand, i def check the flop with a paired board and UTG+1 still to act. On the river i think u def should bet small after SB checks, but i'm not sure how many hands in his range that u beat when u get min c/r'd. I think u are underestimating the strength of his c/r'ing range here.