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  #471  
Old 06-11-2007, 01:16 PM
yingyang0 yingyang0 is offline
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Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]

False. In addition to anything else, there's (sorry, legalese) an implied covenant of good faith an fair dealing attached to the T&C. Proving a violation of this is tricky, but taking your money and not really telling you why (if that's in fact what happened. And no "you be botting" is not really sufficient, IMO) is arguably a breach of this covenant.


[/ QUOTE ]
The implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing is a California legal theory that hasn't been adopted by other states and had even been statutorily modified in California. If it's not within the "four corners" of the contract, then it is not there, period. There are many more applicable legal doctrines than this extremely questionable one.

If you cheat and they catch you, deal with it.
If you didn't cheat and they wrongly catch you, then it is on you to prove that you didn't cheat.
For $70,000 I'd be doing more than posting on a forum (that is if I was innocent!).
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  #472  
Old 06-11-2007, 01:47 PM
IShark IShark is offline
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Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

Man, that is friggin' scary that a site can take $70k from you and not even discuss the "evidence" they supposedly have against you. You should at least be able to say something in your own defense.

This sure makes a good argument for making internet gambling illegal if you have site operators who are going to act this shady.
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  #473  
Old 06-11-2007, 02:15 PM
PNXRMX PNXRMX is offline
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Posts: 122
Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

Actually, if internet gambling was legal, then they could make bot use an offense and therefore send the police round to confiscate your pc(s) and have them reviewed for illegal software. Would probably never happen, but a good idea nonetheless [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].
I detect a hint of blackmail in this thread, where CrazyMike threatens FTP with negative publicity... is it not possible that FTP think it's better off shutting down the account in question than getting negative media exposure because they let people cheat?
On the other hand: a few people have said that Lisa did play like a bot over at ongame... I guess there must be other evidence, but I'm not convinced either way.

The idea of FTP taking your money away kinda scares me... or would do if I played higher stakes (or at ftp for that matter, I don't play there anymore).
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  #474  
Old 06-11-2007, 02:56 PM
sethypooh21 sethypooh21 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: World Series GOGOGOGO
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Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

False. In addition to anything else, there's (sorry, legalese) an implied covenant of good faith an fair dealing attached to the T&C. Proving a violation of this is tricky, but taking your money and not really telling you why (if that's in fact what happened. And no "you be botting" is not really sufficient, IMO) is arguably a breach of this covenant.


[/ QUOTE ]
The implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing is a California legal theory that hasn't been adopted by other states and had even been statutorily modified in California. If it's not within the "four corners" of the contract, then it is not there, period. There are many more applicable legal doctrines than this extremely questionable one.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. Off the top of my head the CGFFD is applicable in Alaska, Minnesota and Colorado as well. Similar but related is that an interpretation of the T&C that gives FTP unlimited discretion to seize player funds is unenforceable due to illusory consideration.
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  #475  
Old 06-12-2007, 01:35 AM
swede1729 swede1729 is offline
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Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are logged in to sharkscope and look up the specifics, you see that it is only headsup tournaments.
ROI -97% on 67 HU tournaments?!?! No way is that possible by tilting, you would get at least 20-30% wins. I see only two reasonable possibilities: Chip dumping or a bot with bugs. Any third alternative, beatme1?

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not play any HU tournaments at poker room. Is it possible that what you are seeing are results from a nickname that was very similar to mine? My name was redgar3 but there was a redgar 3, redgar-3, redgar13, redgar33 and on and on and on.

BeatMe1

[/ QUOTE ]

You can check it out for yourself at www.sharkscope.com: Searching for 'redgar 3' or 'redgar-3' doesn't give hits but searching for 'redgar3' does.
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  #476  
Old 06-12-2007, 03:09 AM
Pokamon4e Pokamon4e is offline
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Posts: 16
Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

I'm not familiar with the database, but why does it show an average loss of $207, while the average stake is only $200, and how can this be a ROI if -97%? Are fees included in the losses?
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  #477  
Old 06-12-2007, 02:46 PM
Gildwulf Gildwulf is offline
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Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

FTPDoug sent me a long email summing up most of the anecdotal evidence against Beatme and the chain of alleged bots that they shut down. He did not show me any of the hard evidence from Support...just a summary of the case so far. One piece of evidence in particular that is not mentioned here is particularly damning. It definitely goes beyond MrGatorade's initial accusations (although they obviously played a role in bringing it to FTP's attention).

If I were a FTP representative, based on the information Doug told me I would confiscate the funds of everyone involved as well.
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  #478  
Old 06-12-2007, 03:02 PM
KurtSF KurtSF is offline
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Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
Loc: Not letting you down

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Gild.
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  #479  
Old 06-12-2007, 04:13 PM
cwar cwar is offline
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Location: Cwar LLC
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Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
FTPDoug sent me a long email summing up most of the anecdotal evidence against Beatme and the chain of alleged bots that they shut down. He did not show me any of the hard evidence from Support...just a summary of the case so far. One piece of evidence in particular that is not mentioned here is particularly damning. It definitely goes beyond MrGatorade's initial accusations (although they obviously played a role in bringing it to FTP's attention).

If I were a FTP representative, based on the information Doug told me I would confiscate the funds of everyone involved as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Gild, to everyone else, told you so.
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  #480  
Old 06-12-2007, 04:58 PM
sethypooh21 sethypooh21 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: World Series GOGOGOGO
Posts: 5,757
Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Loc: Not letting you down

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Gild.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded.

Cwar still misses the point completely. While this goes a long way to establishing that the evidence against beatme is solid, the process still sucked. Looking beyond this individual case, does anyone feel confident that FTP will be accurate and fair in these situations?

It's taken us two weeks of a lot of bitching to get us even a cursory explanation. As far as we now, the accused has still received no opportunity to attempt to refute the "damning evidence". Further, we've seen no proof that FTP in fact disbursed the seized funds to the 'victims'* here. Surely even Crazy Mike can see the conflict of interest in having the same party responsible for determining whether funds should be seized be the same party that receives those monies.

So while this particular incident is largely put to rest, I hope it is the catalyst for FTP to produce some sort of policy that does more to ensure openness and fairness (and more importantly, the appearance of fairness) in these disputes while maintaining as much secrecy over the nitty gritty of their detection methods as possible.


* I wholeheartedly agree that botting is bad for online poker. However, in my mind HU bots <<<<<<<<<<< colluders in terms of danger
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