TT - Argh!

[fretelöo]

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If you had AA, would you fold that too ?


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No, but that's not what you had.

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Well, Rikus point was a bit more subtle: You have an overpair. Overpairs that beat you are JJ, QQ, KK, AA, each of those making 0.5% of someone's pfr rage. AKo by itself makes 0.9%. So, I guess we can agree that you're much more likely to be up vs. some OC-combo than a PP higher than yours. But if there's no PP higher than yours out there, the difference between TT and AA on this flop with regards to the current decision is minimal.

In any case - folding to the flop donk is just hilarious.

[fretelöo]

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In any case, please put the limit into your headline for the next post.

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Supernit, uh.. ah... dubi dup ... dup duh.

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I was thinking about putting that in or not - I guess I need a few thousand more posts to make such a statement looking good :-)

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heh - after a few thousand posts, you won't dream of putting down such a statement in the first place. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[KingOtter]

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Pf is fine with me. After the flop 3bet, I'm certainly not convinced I'm beaten yet. This could still be a draw or some draw+pr combo. But I do think it's a good spot to just call and look for a safe (= not draw-completing) turn card.

Also, I think you can fold the turn. If you look at the available [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s, there's very little that I can see him calling 3 cold with. 78s, 89s, 9Ts - all of those are impossible. Leaves utter trash hands like 34s or 57s or [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s that beat you.

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Or QQ that wanted to see if the early raiser caps.

Hell, I'd call the one bet on the river just to find out what he calls 3-bets with pre-flop, then 3-bets on the flop.

[Riku]

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If you had AA, would you fold that too ?


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No, but that's not what you had.

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Well, Rikus point was a bit more subtle: You have an overpair. Overpairs that beat you are JJ, QQ, KK, AA, each of those making 0.5% of someone's pfr rage. AKo by itself makes 0.9%. So, I guess we can agree that you're much more likely to be up vs. some OC-combo than a PP higher than yours. But if there's no PP higher than yours out there, the difference between TT and AA on this flop with regards to the current decision is minimal.



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Pretty much what i was after.

[Poker Plan]

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If you had AA, would you fold that too ?


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No, but that's not what you had.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Rikus point was a bit more subtle: You have an overpair. Overpairs that beat you are JJ, QQ, KK, AA, each of those making 0.5% of someone's pfr rage. AKo by itself makes 0.9%. So, I guess we can agree that you're much more likely to be up vs. some OC-combo than a PP higher than yours. But if there's no PP higher than yours out there, the difference between TT and AA on this flop with regards to the current decision is minimal.



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Pretty much what i was after.

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Cheers to Freteloo for the explaination. Apologies to Riku for missing the point of your Q?

I think I'm going backwards, not forwards. In fact, I haven't got a f*cking clue which direction I'm going. I think I'm destined for a life at the nano limits [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[kerowo]

PP, why were you so eager to fold TT to a single PF raise? Maybe if we look at the thought process we can see what you are doing.

[Poker Plan]

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PP, why were you so eager to fold TT to a single PF raise? Maybe if we look at the thought process we can see what you are doing.

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I suppose it comes from the line of thought- (probably quite incorrect), but quite engrained in my mind:

That if someone raises PF, then it is probably a higher PP than my T's or it is O/Cs and they'll probably hit the flop (or later streets)

I actually hate medium to medium-high PP's. 22-77 are easy: Get in cheap and fold if I miss flop (unless + straight draw, etc). But 99-QQ (yes QQ!) I get nervous.

I think a lot of it is my own false perception. Because I am quite tight (15%) when I do get big PP's (KK+) I ralrely let go of them- and this gets me into trouble. And when I get medium PP, I limp- which lets every man and his dog in to the flop- and then I get paranoid about every o/c on the board.

[kerowo]

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I think a lot of it is my own false perception. Because I am quite tight (15%) when I do get big PP's (KK+) I ralrely let go of them- and this gets me into trouble. And when I get medium PP, I limp- which lets every man and his dog in to the flop- and then I get paranoid about every o/c on the board.

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If you are playing under 1/2 and your vpip is 15% you are too tight and missing value.

I think you are projecting your own tightness onto other players which is a fairly common mistake; thinking that everyone plays like you do. Just because you would never raise A4o from EP doesn't mean you won't run into people who will. The range of hands someone will raise pre-flop with is much, much wider than you are giving them credit for and your med PP are in good shape against them pre-flop. This will often change on the flop, but often it won't and you will still have the best hand.

For the next 3 or 4 session you play don't limp 99 or TT, raise them. If you are watching a hand that was raised pre-flop and you folded, think about how you would play 99, TT in that hand. See what happens. If you do what you've done you'll get what you got, so change things up a bit.

[fretelöo]

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From now on don't limp 77 or better, raise them. If you are watching a hand that was raised pre-flop and you folded, think about how you would play 99, TT in that hand. See what happens. If you do what you've done you'll get what you got, so change things up a bit.

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fyp [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In addition to that, 3bet 88+ from LP if the original raisor has a pfr% >10.

[Poker Plan]

Many thanks for both replies. Will take your advice on board.

Ian