20/40 at Commerce

[beta1607]

First a general question: $3 ante, $5 bring in. Game is 7 handed and generally loose and agressive. Should I be calling a completion with hands like (A6)6 assuming all cards are live?

Same Loose-Agressive table
2 brings in
K completes
3 callers with high cards
I call with (9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
bring-in calls

All clubs are live at this point, other cards are irrelevant.

4th street (there are now two dead [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])
(xx)KT bets two callers I call with (9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

5th street (total of 4 dead clubs now)
(xx)KT5 bets all fold to me I raise with
(9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the KT5 calls

6th
(xx)KT59 checks
I catch a blank and bet (I think I should I have taken a free card?)

7th
(xx)KT59 checks I catch a blank and bet since I figure its the only way I am winning the hand.

Overall I think i butchered the last few streets and should have been more agressive early on third since me raising would have created an enormous pot in this loose game for me to play my flush. Thoughts, specifically on 5-7th?

[dsaxton]

I take a free card on 6th since you are likely behind and he isn't folding. Having bet 6th, you can safely assume that you are beat once he calls, and should probably bluff into this large pot on the river unimproved unless he is incapable of folding two kings.

[cgrohman]

Raise 4th

[SweetLuckyMe]

4th. street gives you more than your share of equity - therefore you must raise after the bet and 2 calls. Honestly, I like 5th, 6th and 7th - you've given yourself two ways to win the hand, and a possible image boost.

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
4th. street gives you more than your share of equity - therefore you must raise after the bet and 2 calls. Honestly, I like 5th, 6th and 7th - you've given yourself two ways to win the hand, and a possible image boost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the point of raising 5th is to take a free card on 6th. Since that was clearly not your plan, you should have just called on 5th because your clubs are kind of dead. $th is an obv raise. Don't bluff the river in these loose LA games...players don't like to give up their big pairs (but it is not horrible given your over aggression on 5th and 6th).

[dsaxton]

There is obvious value in raising 4th assuming everyone were to call the raise, but can we assume that this will happen? There is a real risk that the probable pair of kings will 3-bet and then you end up with a heads-up pot as a slight underdog, which isn't what you want. I usually like to just call here to close the betting and hope that I can collect big bets from multiple players after completing my hand. It also conceals your hand somewhat since most players expect you to raise with a four-flush here.

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
There is obvious value in raising 4th assuming everyone were to call the raise, but can we assume that this will happen? There is a real risk that the probable pair of kings will 3-bet and then you end up with a heads-up pot as a slight underdog, which isn't what you want. I usually like to just call here to close the betting and hope that I can collect big bets from multiple players after completing my hand. It also conceals your hand somewhat since most players expect you to raise with a four-flush here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would actually be fine if the king 3 bets, the pot is huge at this point and a live 3 flush is often times even a slight favorite vs a big pair, depending on the out cards. Some of your equity HU comes form backing into 2 small pair. A better way to conceal your 4 flushes on 4th is by raising liberally when you catch a suited connector when you DON'T have a 4 flush.

[SweetLuckyMe]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the point of raising 5th is to take a free card on 6th. Since that was clearly not your plan, you should have just called on 5th because your clubs are kind of dead.

[/ QUOTE ] I would agree with you had the 6 not paired us. I'm not a math junkie, but I believe that a pair and a 4 flush on 5th is a money favorite and not that far behind unimproved on 6th unless villian improved to 2 pr.

This is the exact type of hand that I want to take and keep the lead on, as it's good for metagame and the cost on 6th, even if we were somehow reraised, is virtually nothing.

[Andy B]

I like a raise on fourth. Even if the King three-bets and knocks the other players out, you increase your chances of winning when you back into two scraggly pair. The raise on fifth street is a must, but you should be doing it with an eye towards taking a free card on sixth when you don't improve. The river is well worth bluffing unless the other guy is really stubborn.

I don't think you give us enough information to answer your survey.

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most of the point of raising 5th is to take a free card on 6th. Since that was clearly not your plan, you should have just called on 5th because your clubs are kind of dead.

[/ QUOTE ] I would agree with you had the 6 not paired us. I'm not a math junkie, but I believe that a pair and a 4 flush on 5th is a money favorite and not that far behind unimproved on 6th unless villian improved to 2 pr.

This is the exact type of hand that I want to take and keep the lead on, as it's good for metagame and the cost on 6th, even if we were somehow reraised, is virtually nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, a small pair and a flush draw is normally a small favorite over a big pair. But the flush draw is now not super live (so they are about even), and there is always the possibility that that opponent has already made 2 pair. It is still correct the raise because you have position and can get a free card on 6th, if you need it.