Garden City (San Jose): 20-40 first-timer's trip report

[Christmas Steve]

Wednesday night to Thursday 8/8 - 8/9 (yeah, I pulled a 24-hour session!), I took a shot at the 20-40 LHE at Garden City Casino in San Jose, CA. I'm normally a 3-6 & 6-12 player, but my game, and consequently my bankroll, has steadily improved over the past year, so I wanted to see what it was like. Are the players that much better/tighter at the higher buy-in level?

Somewhat to my surprise, I found that the answer is NO. While the table I sat down at was initially fairly tight (what do you expect, 7- to 8-handed at 1AM on Thursday morning), over that session I saw the same variety of tight, loose, and donkey play as I'm accustomed to witnessing at the lower levels. There were perhaps slightly fewer people staying with weak offsuit Aces from early position, but that's just my gut feel.

I ended up doing fairly well overall. After losing my initial $500 buyin, I re-bought for the same amount and ended up walking away with $2500, so $1500 for one day's work. I probably won't do this again for a while, as I know I don't have the bankroll at this point to support the variance. However, this did teach me that if I keep my head (I made a couple of great laydowns that I normally wouldn't at lower levels) and stick to my game, I can compete at any level.

***
There was some discussion that the recent addition of 40-80 games had killed the 20-40 action, which I didn't understand. Anyone have further insight?

[that_pope]

First off, I would heavily advise against 24 hour sessions, ESPECIALLY when taking a shot at a new higher limit. You aren't use to the ebb and flow of the game, and won't be playing optimally until you can adjust. I would recommend not playing longer than 4 or 5 hour sessions when trying to get your feet wet in a new game. Play at your best when you are risking more money than normal.

As for the 40/80 game killing the action in the lower 20/40 game. There are pros and cons of a new bigger game opening. Now the best players in the place will no longer be found in the 20/40 game, but now in the 40/80 game. But also the rich gambler types may have been gambling extra because a $1000 loss in a night is nothing to them, so who cares how they play. So they move up because they want more action at higher stakes.

[*TT*]

500 buyin = 12.5 big bets. Thats like 1.5 losing hands for me. next time sit down with 1K at a minimum. Congrats.

[Ayodeji13]

meh, I usually buy in for 1 rack of whatever game i'm playing just to fit in. Its moot if you have the reload on your person, but most ppl in the 20 at gcity and most limit games around by in for a a rack of whatever denom. the game uses ($200 for 6-12/8-16 $500 for 15-30/20-40 $1000 for 30-60/40-80 etc...)

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
meh, I usually buy in for 1 rack of whatever game i'm playing just to fit in. Its moot if you have the reload on your person, but most ppl in the 20 at gcity and most limit games around by in for a a rack of whatever denom. the game uses ($200 for 6-12/8-16 $500 for 15-30/20-40 $1000 for 30-60/40-80 etc...)

[/ QUOTE ]

Advising players to have less than needed in front of them is really bad. 2+2 has long advocated a 25BB buy in, and rebuying anytime the stack gets low enough that it would risk your ability to maximize your return in a huge hand.

Imagine you had only 4 big bets (a bit more than a stack and 1/2 at 20/40). UTG raises, 3 cold callers, hero cold calls on the button. SB 3-bets, everyone calls - your now in for 1.5 BB in a 19BB pot. The flop is AT9. The flop is bet, raised, and 3-bet before it gets back to you and you probably have the best hand..... how much money did you just lose when your set of nines is the best hand on the river vs AT, AK, and KQ with an OESD?

dont make this mistake... always have enough in front of you to play your hands to the river.

[skeeze666]

I pretty much always buy in for 25 BB at 20-40, 30-60 and 40-80. For me it's about feeling confident, so that if I lose a pot or two I'm not already thinking about how much I'm down and am concentrating on the next hand.

As for 20-40 anywhere, coming from someone like me who played a bunch of 4-8 and 5-10 and 10-20 before moving up, I always had that same assumption about the quality of play. But let's be honest -limit is a gambling game by nature filled with all kinds of players. The players who do well understand when to make and save bets, even one or two a round is important.

The style of play (LAG, TAG, etc) does not necessarily change as you move up in limits. What changes is the aggressiveness. A typical 20-40 game at Foxwoods casino might have 3 to the flop and raised once, whereas the commerce might see 7 to the flop and have at least a 3 bet on the flop.

The 40-80 at Bay 101 is a ton of action, from my limited experience, and no matter what cards are played as starters people are looking to raise or check raise whenever possible to win a pot.

At the lower levels you simply see a lot limping and calling and hoping. That is the major difference.

Congrats on the win, but as you can see take your time at the lower levels and work on fundamentals. Take a shot at a 10-20 game once in a while if you want to get a feel - but 20-40 can easily see a $1k loss on a bad night.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]

The flop is AT9.
.... and KQ with an OESD?



[/ QUOTE ]

Ehh, He's ok, KQ doesn't make an OESD on AT9 flop [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But yes, I echo everything TT has said. 25 big bets for any limit game is a safe starting stack in case you do get into a raising war with a huge hand, you don't want to run out of firepower!

[Captain R]

[ QUOTE ]
Are the players that much better/tighter at the higher buy-in level?

Somewhat to my surprise, I found that the answer is NO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at Garden City... more like Donkey City!

[swope]

congrats on booking your win there.

the 20-40 game is a lot less consistently profitable since the 40-80 opened, but its still good on weekends providing you can weather the types of swings that come with ultra lag baysian gambool voodoo. there are some players in that game who you simply dont ever want in your pots.

personally id rather play the 40-80 there, where you can actually isolate with a strong hand. wish i had the bankroll for it.

as for the 20-40 being in any sort of peril, last time i was there the waiting list was literally 28 strong at 11:00pm on a friday night. it aint going anywhere.

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
congrats on booking your win there.

the 20-40 game is a lot less consistently profitable since the 40-80 opened, but its still good on weekends providing you can weather the types of swings that come with ultra lag baysian gambool voodoo. there are some players in that game who you simply dont ever want in your pots.

personally id rather play the 40-80 there, where you can actually isolate with a strong hand. wish i had the bankroll for it.

as for the 20-40 being in any sort of peril, last time i was there the waiting list was literally 28 strong at 11:00pm on a friday night. it aint going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, an adequate shorthand for south bay poker.