(razz) low to no content

[Praxising]

OK, I'm no math whiz as we know, but don't these numbers mean Stars is more profitable even without Rakeback?

[RustyBrooks]

No, not really. The antes don't go to the house, they go to whomever wins the pot. So when I win a pot on FTP, I win a little more than on PS. Mostly it changes how you play 3rd and 4th st.

Basic poker theory dictates that you should be loose for an initial bet if the pot starts out larger. So on FTP you should play slightly more hands to call the bringin. So this kind of means that limping, or overcalling a completion, is more correct on FTP than on PS. Note that this fits the proclivities of what fish want to do anyway, so it makes a fish's natural behavior a bit more correct. The larger starting pots on FTP encourage gambling - in fact you need to gamble a bit more just to keep up with the antes. And obviously try to steal much more. Stealing on poker stars often isn't worth it, PLUS it's less likely to succeed.

The higher bringin on pokerstars is quite strange to me though. It's 50c in 1/2 which means the bringin is getting great odds to call and should call more than normal.

[RustyBrooks]

So, to recap, it sucks for me today because I'm folding almost every hand and losing the ones I call, so 100% of my antes and bringins disappear and never come back. When I win my share, I win enough to make up for it.

[RustyBrooks]

My lovely downward streak continues by the way. A nice gentle -$20/100 slope. Accompanied by a 25% W$SD rate for today. WTF poker?

[RustyBrooks]

I've made a brief resurgence and my river win rate is now up to 33%!

I have managed to lose a few more hands, all in on 6th, as a 3:1 favorite though.
Edit: they were all in not me. That is not how I roll.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
No, not really. The antes don't go to the house, they go to whomever wins the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
See, this is why I have always loathed math. First, you included the antes in the cost of playing per 100 hands. You also included the bi. But, if this is a cost, you pay it and don't get it back. Now you say we are getting it back when we win a hand. All we have to do is average a 1 in 8 win rate. Unless on a short table, then we have to average a better win rate.

So then, we have to average 1 win per rotation(to get antes and bi) and when we win, we have to win 2bbs to make up for antes, bis and rake. If we win this much this often, we break even and are playing cash games for free. In itself, a great deal of work.

But not as much work as thinking about this.

[RustyBrooks]

Actually every time you win a hand, any hand, you make 1 rounds worth of antes and bringins, by definition. You need to win 1 hand in 8, no matter what the antes/bringins are, to break even (well, plus something for rake)

I don't know about you, but I don't think I win 1 hand in 8 anyway. I see 4th only about 1 in 4 times, and I win $ when I see 4th 46% of the time. So I only win money in 11.4% of hands that I'm dealt (1 in 8 is 12.5%, close obviously)


I listed it as a cost because I basically won almost no hands for 4 hours, so for me, it WAS a fixed cost.


I'm doing pretty bad for the day. Down about 55bb I think, I need to take a final count. I was down about 75 for a while. I usually stop at 50 but I felt I was playing OK and the tables were pretty good.


Sorry for the BBV thread but you know what would happen if I posted this there.

[RustyBrooks]

I am at about the sweetest table ever. Some of these people don't appear to know the rules of razz, like that pairs are not good. I got raised on every street with a lock and I even got a check-raise in on the river.

I also made an awesomely sick calldown with J high (kerze knows my love for the J-high bluff-snapper) against a board showing 8434. Against most players this never happens but this guy was terrible and I maneuvered him into situations like this.

[RustyBrooks]

I was not in this hand but one of the people who was is well known to the stud forum.

Razz ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___raises___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (10.65 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (6.33 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls

6th Street - (14.33 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls $0.15 (all-in)

River - (20.48 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___all-in

Total pot: (20.48 BB - $40.95)

Results (in white):<font color="white">

Total pot $40.95 | Rake $1

Seat 2: RazzySp00n showed [3s Ah Qh Qd 4h 2c 5s] and won ($39.95) with 5,4,3,2,A
Seat 6: Other Guy showed [5c 4c 6d 3h Td Th As] and lost with 6,5,4,3,A

</font>

[RustyBrooks]

Well. I was up to -30bb for the day. Then Razzy comes by and plays HAG for a while and I get [censored] in pretty much every hand. So I'm back to about -60bb for the day.