(razz) Value raise smooth 8 on 7th?

[RustyBrooks]

Villain is a fish, overly loose and fairly aggressive (that is, more aggressive than me, AND playing more hands). I suspect he is new to razz, have never seen him before today.

I don't love my hand on 3rd but I want to isolate and the guy showing a 2 is tight and will only call me with a hand.

on 5th I know he's ahead right now but I think I'm a 60:40 favorite even if he has 2 cards under 8 in the hole. Worst case is he has A2 and I'm a 60:40 dog. Anyway I think he's just betting because he caught a 9 and I obviously have J high.

On 6th there is no had he can have that beats me, just ties, so I'm willing to put in a lot of bets here.

On 7th, what do I do here? After action on 5th and 6th I was surprised he'd bet into me. His actions on 6th make me think he had a pretty sweet draw. I don't think folding is an option, but what about raising? If he re-raises I do what?

Razz ($0.50/$1), Ante $0.10, Bring-In $0.15 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.50 SB)

Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.75 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (6.75 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises

River - (10.75 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___???

Total pot: (12.75 BB - $12.75)

[AggressiveCall]

On 5th, I agree that you you're probably in fairly good shape, but I don't think I'd put in the raise myself. You probably average out to a coin flip there, you're not going to get him to fold, and you might be convincing him to not put stupid bets in on later streets.

On 6th, totally agree with the raise. Obviously when you tie at worst and the villain is loose, you're going to get in as much as possible. (Side note: I think it's possible that he would've been willing to cap here if it hadn't been for the raise on 5th)

On 7th, I'm usually fairly chicken. I'd just call personally, since it's quite possible he had a draw to something better than an 8 high. Unless you're fairly certain he was drawing dead, I think it's a somewhat risky play.

[Andy B]

Third and fourth are fine. I wouldn't raise fifth. If you're winning, it isn't by much. Sixth is an easy raise. I would just call on the river. He's certainly saying that he outdrew you. Even if he didn't or is otherwise kidding himself, he might not pay off a raise with a worse hand (I'll allow that he probably will, though). On balance, I don't think a raise has much value.

[RustyBrooks]

Let's just say he has a big fat note on him now.

[ceegee]

I like everything you did here. I call the river, since he is saying he outdrew you, but I'm not sure he did. He probably thinks his 8 or 9 is good here.

It really depends on your read. With him being very loose playing a lot of hands, if he's a maniac I raise on 7th.
If he is LAG but still a decent player I call 7th