(razz) hand against LAGenstein

[RustyBrooks]

Villain is loose and aggressive: 40 vpip, 25% pfr, af through the roof, around 2. I have not played too many hands personally with him but I've seen him raise a lot of wheel draws, sometimes on 6th when they're a dog to a decent made hand.

I'm going to put my thinking inline, please correct anything that looks off.


Razz ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls


So this is a pretty standard steal, I'm stealing with any low card up but I don't like to steal with an 8 unless I have decent down cards, this is about my limit. He surprises me by calling so I immediately put him on 2 wheel or 6 cards down.




4th Street - (3.60 SB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises


This is as good as it gets and I bet expecting him to call (he called before and he hit a very low card, unless it's paired, why fold now?). The raise is unexpected though... he has a 3 card hand. I guess he's checking to see if I do too so I figure his 3 card hand is still pretty good. I just call. Is that OK? I figure I gain more with deception on the big streets and if he does not catch 5th he'll just fold.




5th Street - (3.80 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks


I expected him to pounce or something here but I don't really hate that it checked through. He's going to need two good cards to beat me.




6th Street - (3.80 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls


So here comes the bet. Now I figure he's got 4 cards to a wheel and I better raise now while I know where I stand.



River - (7.80 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks


Checking too passive here? If he didn't make his hand he has J high here and I don't know if he'll call me. He might call if he's made a T but there's a lot of cards he could draw to beat me. If I bet and he raises... I fold? I'd hate to fold against this guy, so I checked behind.

[Andy B]

Third, good. Three-bet fourth. You have a decent edge, and he's calling. Definitely bet fifth. I wouldn't expect a guy with two face cards up to bet my hand for me. You've got a good situation here, but you're hardly invincible. Bet your damned hand already. Sixth is good. I'd bet the river, but I think that's fairly close.

[RustyBrooks]

My thinking is, someone who will raise 4th is going to keep betting if he doesn't meet opposition but maybe shut down and fold if I play back too hard. OK so I think you're right, I should bet 5th but on 4th I guess I'd rather he thought he was doing OK and I might fall over and fold any second now.

If you bet 7th, can you fold to a check-raise?

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]

If you bet 7th, can you fold to a check-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably not against this guy.

[HOWMANY]

Jam 3-6, value bet river. This guy's a [censored] primate and you let him off the hook almost completely on 4th and 5th.

[Merton0806]

just raise it again on fourth dont use deception against plain bad players

[tx4allthefish]

You have to punish him on 4th because, even if you make your
98 on 5th, if they catch a wheel draw they can bet/raise you
for value on 5th.

Also I'm sure they are just testing you on 4th as to how good
your "stealing" hand is. Another raise on 4th and a bet on
5th would almost certainly have taken it down in this case.

Tx.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking is, someone who will raise 4th is going to keep betting if he doesn't meet opposition but maybe shut down and fold if I play back too hard. OK so I think you're right, I should bet 5th but on 4th I guess I'd rather he thought he was doing OK and I might fall over and fold any second now.

If you bet 7th, can you fold to a check-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
He is raising 4th because he thinks he is ahead and may get you to fold. Trapping on 4th and 5th is bad here. It is obvious what you are doing and your edge isn't big enough.

[ceegee]

I agree with betgo. Your edge may not be as good as you think with him having a wheel draw, and letting him catch cards isn't something you want to do.

[RustyBrooks]

My edge is fantastic...

If he has, say, A2 in the hole

If he gets exactly a 4 (there are 2) on 6th I am a 60:40 favorite.
If he gets a 5 6 7 8 (there are, uh, 12 I think) I am a 65:35 favorite.
If he gets a 9 I am a 75:25 favorite
If he gets T J Q K A 2 3 I am 100% favorite

So he has 2 outs to be a small dog and the rest make him a huuuuge dog.