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#31
07-26-2007, 05:05 AM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
Do you not think it's pretty funny that the way you think we should teach children not to slap people on the the butt is to ... wait for it ... have people they trust and look up to slap them on the butt! I'm pretty sure this is the definition of hypocrisy. [/ QUOTE ] You presume that I think that swatting someone on the butt is something that deserves punishment. Even if I did, you would then be in error equating a "sexual assault" with corporal punishment, even if on the surface they involve the same body part. Isnt it funny that your conclusion is based on two false premises. 
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#33
07-26-2007, 07:52 AM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you not think it's pretty funny that the way you think we should teach children not to slap people on the the butt is to ... wait for it ... have people they trust and look up to slap them on the butt! I'm pretty sure this is the definition of hypocrisy. [/ QUOTE ] You presume that I think that swatting someone on the butt is something that deserves punishment. Even if I did, you would then be in error equating a "sexual assault" with corporal punishment, even if on the surface they involve the same body part. Isnt it funny that your conclusion is based on two false premises. [/ QUOTE ] IT'S THE SAME ACTION! Theft doesn't become virtuous just because it's legalized and abstracted. Murder doesn't become virtuous because it's "our brave boys". You don't get to hit someone just because you filled a womans vagina with sperm. 2+2 isn't 4 and 5 and whatever the party wants at the same time! It's 4 forever no matter who is doing the asking no matter how many times it's asked. If you're ok with hitting people smaller and weaker than you because you think they've done wrong then you're a sociopath. If not it doesn't stop being wrong if they are your kids or my kids or if it's a Tuesday or if it's cloudy or if there's a solar eclipse.
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#34
07-26-2007, 11:55 AM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you not think it's pretty funny that the way you think we should teach children not to slap people on the the butt is to ... wait for it ... have people they trust and look up to slap them on the butt! I'm pretty sure this is the definition of hypocrisy. [/ QUOTE ] You presume that I think that swatting someone on the butt is something that deserves punishment. Even if I did, you would then be in error equating a "sexual assault" with corporal punishment, even if on the surface they involve the same body part. Isnt it funny that your conclusion is based on two false premises. [/ QUOTE ] IT'S THE SAME ACTION! Theft doesn't become virtuous just because it's legalized and abstracted. Murder doesn't become virtuous because it's "our brave boys". You don't get to hit someone just because you filled a womans vagina with sperm. 2+2 isn't 4 and 5 and whatever the party wants at the same time! It's 4 forever no matter who is doing the asking no matter how many times it's asked. If you're ok with hitting people smaller and weaker than you because you think they've done wrong then you're a sociopath. If not it doesn't stop being wrong if they are your kids or my kids or if it's a Tuesday or if it's cloudy or if there's a solar eclipse. [/ QUOTE ] Then I hope you never have kids. Because they will never understand right and wrong. Will just grow up adding to the problem of horrible youth in America. And you are wrong about slapping a butt and spanking your child it's not the same thing. Your equating children that were abused and end up abusive to children who were rightly punished and learned their lesson.
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#35
07-26-2007, 12:04 PM
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Re: I give up America
If this thread doesnt provide ample evidence that the resignation in the title and the OP is accurate, nothing does, govman...highlighted by tomdemaine's asinine response.
I suppose if you can find moral equivalency between the murder of innocent civilians and interrogation techniques that prevent those murders you can find moral equivalency between spanking and sexual assault. Its embarassing that my generation is responsible for the downhill slide. I'm beginning to agree that the war on drugs has had awful consequences. Perhaps if the idiots who espouse this kind of nonsense were addled on drugs they wouldnt be leading the rest of us to the precipice.
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#36
07-26-2007, 12:15 PM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
If this thread doesnt provide ample evidence that the resignation in the title and the OP is accurate, nothing does, govman...highlighted by tomdemaine's asinine response. I suppose if you can find moral equivalency between the murder of innocent civilians and interrogation techniques that prevent those murders you can find moral equivalency between spanking and sexual assault. Its embarassing that my generation is responsible for the downhill slide. I'm beginning to agree that the war on drugs has had awful consequences. Perhaps if the idiots who espouse this kind of nonsense were addled on drugs they wouldnt be leading the rest of us to the precipice. [/ QUOTE ] Copernicus, I did want to personally thank your generation for its bravery in WWI. Try to look on the bright side.
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#37
07-26-2007, 12:16 PM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you not think it's pretty funny that the way you think we should teach children not to slap people on the the butt is to ... wait for it ... have people they trust and look up to slap them on the butt! I'm pretty sure this is the definition of hypocrisy. [/ QUOTE ] You presume that I think that swatting someone on the butt is something that deserves punishment. Even if I did, you would then be in error equating a "sexual assault" with corporal punishment, even if on the surface they involve the same body part. Isnt it funny that your conclusion is based on two false premises. [/ QUOTE ] IT'S THE SAME ACTION! Theft doesn't become virtuous just because it's legalized and abstracted. Murder doesn't become virtuous because it's "our brave boys". You don't get to hit someone just because you filled a womans vagina with sperm. 2+2 isn't 4 and 5 and whatever the party wants at the same time! It's 4 forever no matter who is doing the asking no matter how many times it's asked. If you're ok with hitting people smaller and weaker than you because you think they've done wrong then you're a sociopath. If not it doesn't stop being wrong if they are your kids or my kids or if it's a Tuesday or if it's cloudy or if there's a solar eclipse. [/ QUOTE ] Then I hope you never have kids. Because they will never understand right and wrong. Will just grow up adding to the problem of horrible youth in America. And you are wrong about slapping a butt and spanking your child it's not the same thing. Your equating children that were abused and end up abusive to children who were rightly punished and learned their lesson. [/ QUOTE ] [x] It's not wrong when the powerful does it
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#38
07-26-2007, 12:16 PM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you not think it's pretty funny that the way you think we should teach children not to slap people on the the butt is to ... wait for it ... have people they trust and look up to slap them on the butt! I'm pretty sure this is the definition of hypocrisy. [/ QUOTE ] You presume that I think that swatting someone on the butt is something that deserves punishment. Even if I did, you would then be in error equating a "sexual assault" with corporal punishment, even if on the surface they involve the same body part. Isnt it funny that your conclusion is based on two false premises. [/ QUOTE ] IT'S THE SAME ACTION! Theft doesn't become virtuous just because it's legalized and abstracted. Murder doesn't become virtuous because it's "our brave boys". You don't get to hit someone just because you filled a womans vagina with sperm. 2+2 isn't 4 and 5 and whatever the party wants at the same time! It's 4 forever no matter who is doing the asking no matter how many times it's asked. If you're ok with hitting people smaller and weaker than you because you think they've done wrong then you're a sociopath. If not it doesn't stop being wrong if they are your kids or my kids or if it's a Tuesday or if it's cloudy or if there's a solar eclipse. [/ QUOTE ] Then I hope you never have kids. Because they will never understand right and wrong. Will just grow up adding to the problem of horrible youth in America. [/ QUOTE ] The doublethink in this thread is astounding.
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#39
07-26-2007, 03:07 PM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you not think it's pretty funny that the way you think we should teach children not to slap people on the the butt is to ... wait for it ... have people they trust and look up to slap them on the butt! I'm pretty sure this is the definition of hypocrisy. [/ QUOTE ] You presume that I think that swatting someone on the butt is something that deserves punishment. Even if I did, you would then be in error equating a "sexual assault" with corporal punishment, even if on the surface they involve the same body part. Isnt it funny that your conclusion is based on two false premises. [/ QUOTE ] IT'S THE SAME ACTION! Theft doesn't become virtuous just because it's legalized and abstracted. Murder doesn't become virtuous because it's "our brave boys". You don't get to hit someone just because you filled a womans vagina with sperm. 2+2 isn't 4 and 5 and whatever the party wants at the same time! It's 4 forever no matter who is doing the asking no matter how many times it's asked. If you're ok with hitting people smaller and weaker than you because you think they've done wrong then you're a sociopath. If not it doesn't stop being wrong if they are your kids or my kids or if it's a Tuesday or if it's cloudy or if there's a solar eclipse. [/ QUOTE ] Then I hope you never have kids. Because they will never understand right and wrong. Will just grow up adding to the problem of horrible youth in America. And you are wrong about slapping a butt and spanking your child it's not the same thing. Your equating children that were abused and end up abusive to children who were rightly punished and learned their lesson. [/ QUOTE ] [x] It's not wrong when the powerful does it [/ QUOTE ] Deleted But In this situation your philosophy might have a point. Because of the failure of americas parents to teach their kids right and wrong and to administer punishment as needed. The "nanny state" it seems has had to step and just level extremly over the top punishments when no justified to try and scare people and parents back into doing their jobs. The problem still originates with parents not doing their jobs. And that's why Nielso's jackbooted thugs have the power to do what they do. You ppl live in freakin fantasy worlds where everyone is an angel and if the do a boo boo a time out will REALLY teach them. OMG the time out. Bad billy go to your room and don't play nintendo. It's a joke and I personally hold ppl like tomdemain responsible for the downfall of America.
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#40
07-26-2007, 03:53 PM
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Re: I give up America
[ QUOTE ]
Because of the failure of americas parents to teach their kids right and wrong and to administer punishment as needed. The "nanny state" it seems has had to step and just level extremly over the top punishments when no justified to try and scare people and parents back into doing their jobs. The problem still originates with parents not doing their jobs. [/ QUOTE ] The questions that this case raises, as is the case most of the time, are complicated and are not easy to answer. Potential issues: Are sentencing guidelines/mandatory sentences and the removal (or minimization) of judicial discretion in sentencing a good thing? Should otherwise criminal actions that occur in schools stay within the school system or should they be referred out to the police? Should all/some; which ones; who should decide? How should our criminal justice system deal with 13 year old offenders? Should we have a juvenile justice system at all? When should it be used over the "regular" system? If parents should be responsible to discipline, in cases where the discipline is ineffective, should the parents be responsible for the actions of their 13 year old child? Civilly, criminally or both? How much discretion should prosecutors have in choosing to charge someone with an offense?
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