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#1
10-25-2007, 08:16 PM
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Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
Final table of Tilt 14.5k, a $75 buy in. Villain has about 28.5k behind on the flop.
Full Tilt Poker No Limit Holdem Tournament Blinds: t1500/t3000 (Ante: t400) 6 players Converter Stack sizes: Hero: t52458 UTG+1: t83073 CO: t107403 Button: t43659 SB: t43339 BB: t36068 Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t7500</font>, 4 folds, BB calls t4500 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t14400)</font>. Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t18900, 2 players) BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero? 
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#2
10-25-2007, 08:24 PM
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Re: Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
I usually make it 12k and fold to a shove, but it feels gross when I have to fold getting those odds, but I think that's the best line. Sure, you can check, but what do you do if he bets the turn? The river?
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#4
10-25-2007, 10:00 PM
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Re: Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
He really should be restealing with any hands that he would call with having an Q/K in it. That makes a strong argument for a 8K bet. Think about it this way - whatever you bet, it's going to look like you are committing yourself. So, when he RRs, it has to be with at least J10 (which I would stop and go here to take out some QA/QJ/1010/99). I like a cont. bet of 8K here.
Lest we not operate strictly on pot odds, if you are screwed and know it, it really doesn't matter what your odds are in a tournament. Especially on this board, but you should still bet as to not be taken off what could very well be the best hand by the turn. Barry
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#5
10-26-2007, 01:29 PM
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Re: Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
Yes, having the top 2 stacks following you is a tough spot but kudos on getting past everyone to the BB and represent a pretty good hand to raise from UTG.. Unfortunately, BB really has pot odds to call with anything but 32o and 72 type hands. However, BB is the small stack and as such forced into more aggression than they likely normally play sitting at 5.2M. Since they did not raise you preflop, that should be a sign of a less than stellar hand. Usually, the small stack does not have the luxury of slow playing so I'd be playing after flop on that premise.
After flop if the BB hit a K can they really afford to let you 'free card'? I think this is the time you need to think along the line that you have the best hand or at least a good semi bluff and the BB is not slow playing you (check if you think this player has the ability to slow play under his circumstance). Since you are not at risk of being busted and should not fear playing the short stack, I think it's a push. (But, unfortunately, you posting here implies a poor result.) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#6
10-26-2007, 01:59 PM
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Re: Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, BB really has pot odds to call with anything but 32o and 72 type hands. However, BB is the small stack and as such forced into more aggression than they likely normally play sitting at 5.2M. Since they did not raise you preflop, that should be a sign of a less than stellar hand. Usually, the small stack does not have the luxury of slow playing so I'd be playing after flop on that premise. [/ QUOTE ] Despite pot odds, the BB isn't calling anywhere near that wide here. In fact, given stack sizes he's calling fairly tight and when he is, he's pushing. The flat is pretty weird with 12bbs and is most likely indicative of he isn't very good. My read is that he's not anyone tricky to be feared. Also FWIW, if he has a K he's like always checking here with a plan to c/shove. Problem is, checking this flop sucks bc he's going to shove a lot of turns which sucks for me bc I may be pushed off the best hand. Betting sucks bc any reasonable bet commits me to his shove. I don't see how I can bet 12k and fold when I have to call 14k more in a pot which would be like ~60k and he could easily have TJ. Making a smaller bet on the flop seems to be begging for a shove. [ QUOTE ] (But, unfortunately, you posting here implies a poor result.) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I bet 12k and he folded. I just think it was a weird spot mostly due to the fact that he's flatting me pf OOP with 12bbs.
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#7
10-26-2007, 02:28 PM
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Re: Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
It's not a bad spot, once he checks, either it's a stop n' go that hit REALLY big or a total miss that's afraid. Pot odds are basically irrelevant here because any push is either a massive semibluff or he hit. And you have to raise pf, nice hand.
Barry
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#8
10-26-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
I agree with Barry's logic. In this instance I tend to view my strategy more aptly to stacks and stack-to-pot ratios than pot odds.
There's 19k in the pot. BB has 28k. Hero has 44k. I agree with Barry's 8k. It just enough to put BB at a crossroads for a shove or fold. And if its a shove you can much with a healthy 36k (36k ~ 7M) 8K = sweet spot
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#9
10-26-2007, 04:59 PM
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Re: Final Table: 88 flop spot with awkward stacks
[ QUOTE ]
It's not a bad spot, once he checks, either it's a stop n' go that hit REALLY big or a total miss that's afraid. Pot odds are basically irrelevant here because any push is either a massive semibluff or he hit. And you have to raise pf, nice hand. Barry [/ QUOTE ] I agree with almost everything said about this hand,and of course it worked out just fine. However,just to be devils advocate here for a moment,in a situation like this,with this flop,don't you think you will be rr a ton of times?
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