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#151
11-22-2006, 02:15 PM
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Re: Hail to the Hills of Westwood
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm confident that I could have done it myself without injuring him simply by using a pressure point to get him off the ground. [/ QUOTE ] Presumably this is supposed to be uncomfortable enough to convince him to get up, but not as painful as a drive-stun Tasering, right? (I am not trained in the martial arts, nor have I ever been Tasered before, so please excuse the pedantry.) [/ QUOTE ] Pressure points, joint locks, compression locks, are all forms of "pain compliance". According to one group here, such methods should not be used, because they inflict pain. And they are in a sense worse, because the pain is inflicted steadily, over a longer period of time than with a Taser. And if the officer does not know what he is doing, or if the suspect struggles, those techniques can cause injury (dislocations, etc). 
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#153
11-22-2006, 02:26 PM
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Re: Hail to the Hills of Westwood
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm confident that I could have done it myself without injuring him simply by using a pressure point to get him off the ground. [/ QUOTE ] Presumably this is supposed to be uncomfortable enough to convince him to get up, but not as painful as a drive-stun Tasering, right? (I am not trained in the martial arts, nor have I ever been Tasered before, so please excuse the pedantry.) [/ QUOTE ] A) The part about me making him get up assumed that he was on the ground initially and not complying with any orders. Based on my watching of the UCLA tape, this was not the case until after the officers started tasing him. B) A pressure point is going to cause discomfort for compliance, but in the absence of any farfetched possibilities (like he was uncomfortable, slipped and fell down a flight of steps), will not cause injury. [ QUOTE ] Pressure points, joint locks, compression locks, are all forms of "pain compliance". According to one group here, such methods should not be used, because they inflict pain. And they are in a sense worse, because the pain is inflicted steadily, over a longer period of time than with a Taser. And if the officer does not know what he is doing, or if the suspect struggles, those techniques can cause injury (dislocations, etc). [/ QUOTE ] You're right about the locks (joint/compression) being dangerous and causing serious pain, but it is simply incorrect to imply that utilizing pressure points presents the same problems.
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#154
11-22-2006, 02:34 PM
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Re: UCLA Taser Incident - Quoted Dialogue From Video
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I was aso against the cope first but as I read more why did he not just get up. Also he was asked to leave leave. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, seriously. Since he didn't get up, the cops had carte blanche to inflict whatever torture they wanted upon him. He's lucky they just tased him. Maybe they should have poured gasoline on him and lit a match. Or sodomized him with a broom handle.
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#155
11-22-2006, 02:49 PM
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Re: Hail to the Hills of Westwood
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A) The part about me making him get up assumed that he was on the ground initially and not complying with any orders. Based on my watching of the UCLA tape, this was not the case until after the officers started tasing him. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. He was on the ground before any Tasering and was not handcuffed during any Tasering. [ QUOTE ] Stephen Yagman, the civil rights attorney Tabatabainejad has hired to handle his case, said Tabatabainejad was stunned five times with the Taser before being handcuffed and taken into custody. ...... As Tabatabainejad was leaving the room, he was approached by two officers, one of whom grabbed the student"s arm. When officers did not let go of his arm, Tabatabainejad fell limp to the floor, Yagman said. [/ QUOTE ] Article
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#156
11-22-2006, 02:52 PM
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Re: UCLA Taser Incident - Quoted Dialogue From Video
Cmon guys stop criticising the police, its obvious they dealt with the situation inteligently.
Anyone would think they made a martyr out of the library guy and fecked up there own careers or sumfink. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#157
11-22-2006, 02:54 PM
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Re: Hail to the Hills of Westwood
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Finally, I've been tased on the stun setting. It didn't affect me that much - it hurt, but it didn't take me off my feet. On the other hand, when it was used on another guy in my department - who was 210 lbs. of solid muscle and trained in MMA fighting - he was knocked off his feet and pissed himself. The thing with tasers is that they affect different people differently. A lot depends on how it makes contact with the person being hit with it. So people who think that the "drive setting" doesn't hurt are kidding themselves and are probably the same kind of people that like to sit behind the security of a computer and say, "10K FIGHT YO." [/ QUOTE ] Two settings. "Probe", where they shoot the darts at you. "Drive", where they apply the device directly to your skin, using the probes (not the darts) that are 1-2 inches apart. Are you saying that both you and the other guy were Tasered on the "Drive" setting?
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#158
11-22-2006, 03:07 PM
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Re: Hail to the Hills of Westwood
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A) The part about me making him get up assumed that he was on the ground initially and not complying with any orders. Based on my watching of the UCLA tape, this was not the case until after the officers started tasing him. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. He was on the ground before any Tasering and was not handcuffed during any Tasering. [ QUOTE ] Stephen Yagman, the civil rights attorney Tabatabainejad has hired to handle his case, said Tabatabainejad was stunned five times with the Taser before being handcuffed and taken into custody. ...... As Tabatabainejad was leaving the room, he was approached by two officers, one of whom grabbed the student"s arm. When officers did not let go of his arm, Tabatabainejad fell limp to the floor, Yagman said. [/ QUOTE ] Article [/ QUOTE ] You appear like a little child by responding "Nope." The hyperlinked article does not contain the language in the quote. Perhaps you are quoting an earlier edition? Anyway, my hypothetical is irrelevant. Should you wish to debate the matter further, perhaps you'll intelligently respond to my initial post on the subject.
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#159
11-22-2006, 03:08 PM
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Re: Hail to the Hills of Westwood
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Finally, I've been tased on the stun setting. It didn't affect me that much - it hurt, but it didn't take me off my feet. On the other hand, when it was used on another guy in my department - who was 210 lbs. of solid muscle and trained in MMA fighting - he was knocked off his feet and pissed himself. The thing with tasers is that they affect different people differently. A lot depends on how it makes contact with the person being hit with it. So people who think that the "drive setting" doesn't hurt are kidding themselves and are probably the same kind of people that like to sit behind the security of a computer and say, "10K FIGHT YO." [/ QUOTE ] Two settings. "Probe", where they shoot the darts at you. "Drive", where they apply the device directly to your skin, using the probes (not the darts) that are 1-2 inches apart. Are you saying that both you and the other guy were Tasered on the "Drive" setting? [/ QUOTE ] Yes.
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#160
11-23-2006, 03:48 AM
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Input from an ex-cop
Thank you very much for your input, which is, as usual, concise and BS-free.
[ QUOTE ] The fact that two people aren't cops doesn't render them incapable of discussing police conduct. [/ QUOTE ] Precisely. And this, coming from an ex-cop, is particularly noteworthy. [ QUOTE ] The student is a total douchebag. Despite the first comment, there is NO excuse for a group of FOUR TO SIX police officers to REPEATEDLY use a taser on ONE guy who has shown no signs of serious aggression or threats of aggression. <font color="white">. </font> [And] these officers threatened non-aggressive bystanders with a tasering. This is nothing short of an unwarranted police aggression. <font color="white"> . </font> The police - and the police ALONE - are responsible for escalating this situation. The kid wants to yell and scream about being forced from the library. SO [censored]ING WHAT? Let him make himself look like an idiot. The worst thing the officers could have done was make an idiot into a cause celebre - and they did it. <font color="white">. </font> I've been tased on the stun setting. Tasers affect different people differently. People who think that the "drive setting" doesn't hurt are kidding themselves and are probably the same kind of people that like to sit behind the security of a computer and say, "10K FIGHT YO." <font color="white"> . </font> Tasers are dangerous and should be abandoned. The UCLA department regulations are too liberal with regard to when they can be used. [/ QUOTE ] QFT Mickey Brausch
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