Questions about 2xBB hour profit at Low-Limit hold'em

[icemanjmw]

First of all, let me state that I am/was mostly a NL player so I don't have a lot of experience at Limit HE. Also I understand variance plays a big role, and I have nowhere near a big enough sample size, so that's why I'm posting here wondering if someone could help me out.

Okay like I said whenever I went to a casino before I played 1-2 NL, won some big, lost some big, had a bunch of even nights, you get the picture there. Recently I decided to try my hand at Limit and read Lee Jones' book, went to the casino a few times (exactly 3,hence the small sample size) and only played a few hours each night. But each time I was able to win and in those three three hour sessions I booked wins of $100, $100, $200. Not mind blowing numbers for sure, but it led me to a few questions. Also the sheer relaxation factor of not having to risk your entire stack against god knows what has mad it a much better game for me, my style of play and personality, and current desire to avoid too much risk have made it a better fit for me.

1. Is 2xbig bet really the expected profit at these games, or at lower levels (2-4 Limit) can it be greater than $8/hr?

2. I've played on Fri and Sat night only, are the games on Weeknights anywhere near as bad, in general, I realize every casino is different.

3. Are the games much tougher at 3/6 4/8 or 5/10 Limit, what level does the players' skill levels in general rise to the point that Low-Limit strategy no longer works?

4. Does the Limit HE section of Super System help at all in the smaller games?

[One Outer]

Since you're talking b&m, I'll take a shot at this. I only play live and I only play limit.

1. If you're very good 2/hr is certainly possible at the lowest limits. I know nothing about your skills so I can't say anything about your expectation, of course, but the important part is that it's possible.

However, it's not a smart thing to waste time at 2/4 if you're any good. For people who know they are good players it makes more sense to scrape up a larger starting bankroll and start at like 4/8 or 6/12. Those games in most rooms either play the same or pretty close to 2/4 and the rake isn't nearly as brutal.

I would be inclined to tell you to stay at 2/4 until you have a good idea of what you're doing. Most players transitioning from NL to limit have a really tough time at first. They really are completely different games. Going limit to NL is much easier for most people.


2. The short answer is that every casino is different. It would really help if I knew what room we are talking about. It's unlikely that I don't have at least a passing familiarity with yours. At my hometown room, Canterbury Park, all the games on the weekend are good but you do have to exercise a little game selection during the week, especially during the day. A good game can always be found at limit below 15/30, though.

3. Absolutely not. You'll see improvement in the play starting at about 4/8, 5/10 or 6/12 but the play doesn't improve that much. In some rooms the games get tougher at 6/12 or 8/16. SSHE is applicable at every level of the game to varying degrees. It will be directly relevant up until about 15/30 in the current environment.

4. No. There might be some disagreement about this, but I think the limit section of either Super System book is useless. The Baldwin section is the original is outdated and the Harman section in the new one offers very little advice directly relevant to small stakes games. Get yourself a copy of SSHE.


If you're going to be serious about taking up limit I would like to be the first to welcome you to forum and I look forward to seeing some of your hands.

[reutel]

I expected, as most players did, an hourly rate higher/around 2bb/hour. My first sessions were really good (350 per night in 5/10 limit game). THen suddenly you start having sessions where you flop 468 when you hold 44. Someone is in the pot with 57 and someone with 46. Those get costly. Your top pair won't be good some nights.

You should realize that the rake and expected tip are HUGE. Even if you are much better than your opponents at 2/4, this edge is somewhat cancelled by the insane rake (in my casino 10% +1 euro expected tip). start at 4/8+ if you think you can beat these guys.

[Niediam]

1. I believe it's possible to win a little higher than 2bb/hr in good small stakes games.

2. Games won't be quite as good on weeknights (less drunks, more regulars, etc) but they will still be very good.

3. All those limits should be very soft assuming your area has larger games available.

4. Yes. The book you should be reading is Small Stakes Hold'em by Miller, Sklansky, & Malmuth though.

[icemanjmw]

Thank you all for the advice, what I plan on doing is grinding at the 2/4 game still until I have the bankroll for 4/8 or 5/10 which is offered at all the local casinos (WV).

Also I will be going to (hopefully) pick up a copy of SSHE today. Is it similar to Winning Low-Limit? Do they agree on most points?

[Niediam]

[ QUOTE ]

Also I will be going to (hopefully) pick up a copy of SSHE today. Is it similar to Winning Low-Limit? Do they agree on most points?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically but SSH advocates a more aggressive style and in general is more indepth.

[gobbledygeek]

Do we have lots of people here making anywhere close to 2 BB/hour at live 2/4 with rake/jackpot/tip? I'm currently running at 0.3 BB/hour and that's at the 900 hour mark. To make 7 times that amount seems unattainable to me, but maybe I'm a really bad poker player.

This 2 BB/hour seems to be tossed about rather easily. I'm curious as to how many posters on this forum (most of whom I assume are in the rare percentile of winners of this game) are making anywhere close to this (over a reasonable sample size, live, and at 2/4 like OP asked).

[One Outer]

not at 2/4. Like, it's technically possible, but it's so hard with all the other expenses. Mines about .7/hr in 6/12, but the majority of those hours were this summer and I ran really awful.

[jesse8888]

I'm running at .5 big bets per hour at 6/12 over the last 150 hours or so. Of course I lost over 50 big bets this weekend, so I was doing a lot better if you'd asked last week [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]