6max blind defense

bozlax · #1 07-12-2007, 08:48 PM

Ok, so I posted this in NC and everybody started jabbering about it like there was some merit to discussing it, so here you go:

The part I didn't include is a read; MP's only been at the table for a couple of orbits, but he seems like a fairly ordinary 1/2 fishmax player, i.e. not over-the-top laggy, but prone to over-playing hands postflop, raising Axo (x<6) in EP/MP preflop, stuff like that.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, Hero caps, MP calls.

So, why did I cap the flop?

davelin · #2 07-12-2007, 08:52 PM

Because you have pot equity against a hand like A5o and maybe a little extra fold equity?

RemyXO · #3 07-12-2007, 08:58 PM

Whatever he has, you got 15 outs to the nuts with 2 streets to go. Your hand is the favorite to win by the river. You jam the pot on the flop, as every extra bet that goes in on the flop earns you $$$ in the long run. VNH!

tyler_cracker · #4 07-12-2007, 09:11 PM

the problem i have is that we're oop and that this board is very likely to have hit villain, possibly hard.

were you hoping that your cap flop/check turn would look fishy enough that villain would check behind to avoid a c/r and give you a free card anyway?

bozlax · #5 07-12-2007, 09:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the problem i have is that we're oop and that this board is very likely to have hit villain, possibly hard.

were you hoping that your cap flop/check turn would look fishy enough that villain would check behind to avoid a c/r and give you a free card anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Our position has absolutely nothing to do with our play in this case, Tyler. If we don't hit on the turn, fine, we check/call, but as of the flop we're better than 50% to hit.

And, I checked the turn because I didn't hit and I didn't want to get raised again. In retrospect, bet/fold would've been fine, but I'm more likely to pull that if I have a hope that I'd take it down with the bet.

NIX · #6 07-12-2007, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever he has, you got 15 outs to the nuts with 2 streets to go. Your hand is the favorite to win by the river. You jam the pot on the flop, as every extra bet that goes in on the flop earns you $$$ in the long run. VNH!

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I don't like capping this flop OOP is that it is going to commit you to betting the turn and calling a raise if he feels like doing so. Even if he is gonna overplay something, it has you beat now and will on the turn unless you hit something. I think you only have a small edge on the flop, so while you do make money on bets going in, if you miss on the turn, he has a much bigger edge and whatever small gains you get from bets going in on the flop is counteracted by the larger edge and the larger bets going in on the turn.

If you have some fold equity, then it makes the cap look better, but I don't see a lot of people taking the bet/3bet/fold line on the flop that often.

Point Blank · #7 07-12-2007, 09:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Because you have pot equity against a hand like A5o and maybe a little extra fold equity?

[/ QUOTE ]

after he 3bets you have 0 fold equity (IMO)

as for value (once you factor in rake this is almost neutral as you are OOP)

you have equity to cap if you only consider the action on the flop ... but since your OOP you'll be putting in bet on the turn (which you must include in your total investment)

you'll put in 4bet of 8 on the flop with 64%
but then the turn comes and your equity drops to 32%
which you'll be putting in another 2sb or 4sb (if you bet or check)

this put you investment at 52% and 48% ... not too sure how to factor in when we "hit on the turn and win" and "hit on the turn and lose on the river"

factor in the rake and you'll be getting back less than 50%

bozlax · #8 07-12-2007, 09:18 PM

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The reason I don't like capping this flop OOP is that it is going to commit you to betting the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

NIX · #9 07-12-2007, 09:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And, I checked the turn because I didn't hit and I didn't want to get raised again. In retrospect, bet/fold would've been fine, but I'm more likely to pull that if I have a hope that I'd take it down with the bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the turn is a blank, you're considering bet/folding it?

NIX · #10 07-12-2007, 09:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reason I don't like capping this flop OOP is that it is going to commit you to betting the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

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Because I think it pretty much lets him know you have air/some sort of draw. If you capped the flop with AJ or something, why wouldn't you lead the turn?