QTo in the BB. Spew?

[Grease]

Great 20/40 game. Players are all fairly aggro, with some being looser than others. No one is particularly crazy, but the particular callers in this hand were some of the looser people there. On to the hand.

One limp, a raise, 3 callers to me (SB folded), I call with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, check, PFR bets, one raise, one call, one fold to me.

I 3-bet...

[n.s.]

Seems spewy to me. 3-betting for value requires everything to be perfect - the PFR has to call 2 more cold, your draw has to be good every time it hits (no one has two spades or a set), and no one can have any your outs in their hand. You are out of position so you'll pretty much never get a free card, and there's a bet, a raise, and a cold-call, so the chances of buying this pot is really, really small.

[Hass]

I don't like. If you call and make your hand then you can c/r the field on the turn or river, wouldn't this give us more value?

[amulet]

preflop is it a fold. you can easily be dominated by the raiser. if you were suited then you have an extra way to win and a call is fine.

postflop the raise likely has neg ev. you are about a 2 to 1 dog to make the str8 by the river. so in theory if you get more then 2 callers you make money. however, here the board has 2 spades. therefore, 2 of your outs are not clean (vs this many opponents a flush draw is likely). most flush draws are not folding in a pot this big. furthermore someone could have a set, reducing your odds of winning. you are out of position, and it could be raised again. your raise is not likely to fold hands that give you extra cards that win the hand for you. overall, the raise is a mistake - especially out of position. postflop i call here, but i think you want all your opponents to stay and pay if you hit and it holds.

[golferbrent]

Preflop: This is never a fold here preflop from the BB. You would be giving up way too much value here, especially if these players are the looser ones in the game. I don't think your hand is in terrible shape here.

Flop: You are correct no flush draws are folding, but you may fold some gutshot draws here, thereby cleaning up some of your pair outs. I don't mind the 3 bet here... It is possible you could create some confusion and buy a free card here on the turn. A 3 bet--check could induce checks on the turn if we miss. Overall, I don't love the 3 bet, but if definitely has some merit and should always be one of the options you consider here.

[amulet]

with all due respect, preflop it is a clear fold. after an early limper another player raises, you could be eaisly dominated. now a bunch call, you have 5 opponents and you have a hand that plays poorly multiway and you are out of position. this call will cost you a lot of money when you hit part of your hand.

postflop, i doubt you are buying a free card out of position.

position is way too important to just look at the cards.

however, if you do look at the cards, QTo is not a good hand. especially vs a raiser. what does he raise with, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ, AJs, KQs, likely KJs and a few more. vs all the hands i listed you are a dog, some a huge dog. now you add a non suited one gap connector and suggest playing it vs 5 opponents, that is a big loser.

[cgrohman]

I hate this out of position.

[AragornX151]

Just call. You're not getting flush draws out, and you WANT other hands in.

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
with all due respect, preflop it is a clear fold. after an early limper another player raises, you could be eaisly dominated. now a bunch call, you have 5 opponents and you have a hand that plays poorly multiway and you are out of position. this call will cost you a lot of money when you hit part of your hand.

postflop, i doubt you are buying a free card out of position.

position is way too important to just look at the cards.

however, if you do look at the cards, QTo is not a good hand. especially vs a raiser. what does he raise with, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ, AJs, KQs, likely KJs and a few more. vs all the hands i listed you are a dog, some a huge dog. now you add a non suited one gap connector and suggest playing it vs 5 opponents, that is a big loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's getting better than 10 to 1. He has to call preflop. Yes, he's a big underdog, but not a 10:1 dog. Not even close.

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
Great 20/40 game. Players are all fairly aggro, with some being looser than others. No one is particularly crazy, but the particular callers in this hand were some of the looser people there. On to the hand.

One limp, a raise, 3 callers to me (SB folded), I call with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, check, PFR bets, one raise, one call, one fold to me.

I 3-bet...

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your play. Very strong draw, likely to get three callers. Calling is also okay but the first guy is probably folding even if you don't raise, and the PFR is likely calling whether you raise or not. Call it 2.5 callers on average with better than 8 outs and two cards to come. If you pick up a flush draw on the turn then bet out, otherwise check if you don't make the straight.