***** November LC Thread *****

[PrimordialAA]

sigh... who does FTP let call themselves pros these days, silly JJ Liu 2 outs me w/22 FTW in a 110 :-p... newbs

[cwar]

JJ Liu playing 110s? Daaaamn normally shes down in the 33s. Almost sat with you while playing on a students account on accident Primo, would have told you obv.

[daveT]

I don't believe in SAGE. The problem it doesn't take into account is that you only need it when you are running cold. So obviously, when you press all in with KJs, your opponent will infallibly have A2o. Eat that Ferguson.

[cwar]

SAGE is what it is, its not the ideal play and it never claimed to be.

[daveT]

Meh, only use it when I have like nothing. I have, at best, a half-assed understanding of it, so I'm probably using it wrong. It probably doesn't matter how good or bad you are at it when your down to your last 3 or 4 antes.

[HokieGreg]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe in SAGE. The problem it doesn't take into account is that you only need it when you are running cold. So obviously, when you press all in with KJs, your opponent will infallibly have A2o. Eat that Ferguson.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shoving KJ and running into A2 is not a good example. You should absolutely be shoving KJ when sage is applicable with stack sizes. Most people fold too many hands with 10 bb or less stack sizes and sage exploits this common weakness.

You can obviously adapt your shoving ranges slightly to those who call or fold too often. Having KJ run into A2 with a 10 bb or less stack is not the end of the world.

I will say that using the sage system for calling ranges against people who aren't using sage or aren't even playing push/fold is probably a mistake. It's good when people are shoving often, but if villain is only shoving 10% of the time with a 7 bb stack then using the sage calling range is obviously a mistake (using sage you would call with 30 points / hands like: J6s).

[daveT]

It was a random thought -- really. Just wanted to share it with someone.

But you are right, "Having KJ run into A2 with a 10bb or less stack is not the end of the world." It is the end of the game, unless I am the one holding the A2, then you will double through because you are sage enough to use SAGE properly.

I have experimented with it a little, but not comfortable with it yet.

Isn't supposed to be used with people that are better than you? I am trying it out when the effective stacks are so small that there is no playability right now. But with 5-10 bb, I toss it.

[HokieGreg]

I would use both the pushing and calling ranges that sage recommends against a player that is equal to me or better than me. I don't think the pushing range is very exploitable by any opponent, but I can understand adjusting slightly if they are calling really wide or folding way too much.

I would also argue that a 5-10 bb stack size really doesn't leave you with much "playability." 9-10 bb maybe against the most passive opponents, but definitely not with 8 bb or less.

[ChicagoRy]

[ QUOTE ]
JJ Liu playing 110s? Daaaamn normally shes down in the 33s. Almost sat with you while playing on a students account on accident Primo, would have told you obv.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL AIM?

I missed it on this one, Indy > Cwar in this department.

[PrimordialAA]

yea cwar lol, and I just barely dodged a same time sit w/you while we were both 2 tabling 110s last night... well not night for you, but yea. And as for the JJ Liu thing, I had no clue who it was til the match was over and I saw the red name, and then it was 3x as annoying ;p