KK a bit deep vs aggro. 1000nl

jj12 · #1 10-23-2007, 08:00 AM

Oppo is 27/19/3. He seems a bit overagro and donkish. 4-bet pre or call? Flop play is standard, right?

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1147
Hero: $1674.75
CO: $174.71
Button: $1182
SB: $1346.75
BB: $1361

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $45, 2 folds, SB raises to $165, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($340, 2 players)
SB bets $225, Hero raises all-in $1504.75.

HeheOkok · #2 10-23-2007, 08:15 AM

Your image/stats are pretty important here. I like this line but I like 4betting too, as long as you don't have a particularly nitty image. Stacks are good for 4betting if he's as overaggro as you say.

Djeorge · #3 10-23-2007, 08:15 AM

I prefer a small 4bet pre to like 440 given stacks esp if you have any history because I think he's going to make bigger mistakes that way.

jj12 · #4 10-23-2007, 08:28 AM

i don't have much history. I am playing solid 24/19 style.

Jamougha · #5 10-23-2007, 08:29 AM

With the stack sizes I would raise the flop small rather than shoving. Still this is obviously one of the viable lines.

NoPokerInAfrica · #6 10-23-2007, 10:07 AM

I\'m hoping someone can help me because I know that this is a pretty standard line, but part of it doesn\'t make sense to me.

Let\'s take a normal player first, then we can adjust it for his overagro read. A normal player\'s 3-bet OOP against UTG raiser range is probably what? JJ-AA, AK? (Maybe I\'m wrong on that?)

When hero shoves on flop, he is risking just under $1200 to win under $600, so he\'s laying over 2:1 odds on his bet. Is that a good idea? Seems like pretty bad reverse implied odds...He\'s losing to the other two pocket pairs in villain\'s range, JJ and AA and what worse hands are going to call him? Maybe QQ. Hero also has all the hands he\'s beating pretty much dominated...a lower pocket pair is a 2-outer and AK is a 3-outer...

Is it the fact that he\'s aggro what makes the decision? Board\'s pretty dry...are you afraid of clubs?

So I have 2 questions:

1) Do you make the same play if villain is TAG?
2) How do you play if board was QJ3 w/ 2 clubs?

I know that just calling seems like a weak line, but doesn\'t that give him the possibility of making more mistakes? He can\'t really make a mistake after you shove, can he? (or are you thinking he\'ll talk himself into a call thinking you have a flush draw?) If you say he\'s overaggro and donkish, maybe he\'ll fire the turn.

If the turn is another club, then I think you shove, because your hand is now vulnerable. On that flop, I think you\'re either way ahead or way behind...doesn\'t make total sense to me to lay huge odds to my opponent in that situation.

I\'m really curious to know what you guys think though so let me know.

HERE_2_gamble_ · #7 10-23-2007, 10:53 AM

min raise wooo

HustlerLA · #8 10-23-2007, 11:24 AM

I think whatever you can do to make him get committed to this pot by the flop is the best line. So in this case perhaps a smaller raise is better that might get calls from pairs that you dominate while the shove would fold them out. I like a raise slightly larger than min, its the kind where he might interpret it as a raise where you are leaving room to get away if he over shoves.