set on a scary board. 1kNL

jj12 · #1 10-20-2007, 10:02 AM

Villain is 24/12/2 datamined. No read on him but it is easy to guess that he is somewhat donkish. I didn't wanna c/r on the flop because there are a lot of super ugly turns and the stacks sizes will be horrible. Lets also consider the same hand with 100 bb. It seems like crai on flop would be optimal against the described player. Please note that the turn is an "ugly" card in 30% of the time.

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $32, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($106, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets $65, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($236, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $135, Hero calls.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($506, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $450, Hero folds.

luvetoholdem · #2 10-20-2007, 10:09 AM

He bet on all 3 streets, which really confuses me with the turn and river.

I think he may had a combo draw on flop, and hit the turn. The river is such a large bet, I dont see how you can call.
I think you played it well, and I would have done the same.

Borned_Luckbox1 · #3 10-20-2007, 10:12 AM

I would lead flop, as played c/r flop.

jj12 · #4 10-20-2007, 10:17 AM

sorry for not incl stax. we are 140 bb effective.

borned. pot would be 500 with 1200 left if he calls. plan on 4 str8 / flush completing turns?

higHstaKesOwneR · #5 10-20-2007, 10:27 AM

hm yeah tought also of a donk / weak donk on the flop but i am not sure how to play here

jj12 · #6 10-20-2007, 10:42 AM

lets look at the same scenario w/ a c/r:

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1106
UTG+1: $1221
CO: $953.25
Button: $3362.67
Hero: $1471.5
BB: $65

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $32, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($106, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets $65, Hero raises to $220, Button calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($546, 3 players)
Hero ???.

skier_5 · #7 10-20-2007, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
lets look at the same scenario w/ a c/r:

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1106
UTG+1: $1221
CO: $953.25
Button: $3362.67
Hero: $1471.5
BB: $65

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $32, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($106, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets $65, Hero raises to $220, Button calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($546, 3 players)
Hero ???.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you seriously justifying not raising the flop with this?????????????

better not 3bet KK preflop god forbid an ace comes.

jj12 · #8 10-20-2007, 10:49 AM

i am not justifying anything skier. i've been experimenting with taking more passive lines and don't think this is a good spot to do it. in the scenario above I think bet/calling the turn is actually optimal. I also think that we should c/r flop because we are a massive favorite. However, as other posters pointed out b3b on the flop seems to be the best play.

jfish · #9 10-20-2007, 10:50 AM

i think his argument has merit skier. if 30% of the deck is bad for you, and the value of your hand strongly depends on the turn card, isnt it fair to see it before committing?

skier_5 · #10 10-20-2007, 11:03 AM

wait, how big are the stacks?