The state of Notre Dame football.

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
So let's suppose that, say, Michigan St is a team without a bunch of top 30 recruiting years. Did Ty leave enough in the cupboard for a genius football coach to beat them?

Purely a hypothetical question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's another purely hypothetical question: Let's suppose Purdue doesn't have a bunch of elite recruiting classes, and Charlie Weis is a football genius (yeah, I know the second isn't a hypothetical, but stick with me). Now let's suppose that Purdue is playing Notre Dame.

1. How many points should I be willing to give and still take ND?

2. If the whole world is gone crazy and I'm getting points, should I bet all I have or should I bet all I have plus all I can borrow?

[Dudd]

You are aware that Purdue and Michigan State had more highly ranked recruiting classes Ty's last two years than ND did? No one is saying that being waxed at home by Michigan State is acceptable and going 0-4 is acceptable, but when you can say that Purdue and Michigan State have better talent in their junior and senior classes, that's a pretty big problem for a program that only wants to and only can compete for a national championship.

[Rococo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the same delusion that afflicts Alabama fans. The world is different now. Most high school recruits can barely remember a time when ND was competing for National Championships. They could care less about teams from the 60s and 70s, Touchdown Jesus, Ara Parseghian, Knute Rockne, waking up the echoes, that stupid leprechaun, etc.

Team speed is a bigger part of the college game than it used to be. A disproportionate amount of the speed is in Florida and California. Kids from FL and CA do not want to move to South Bend, especially when they can go to Florida or USC.

[rafiki]

At least if we lose every game, we get the top pick !

Wait, crap.

[MiloDanglers]

[ QUOTE ]
You are aware that Purdue and Michigan State had more highly ranked recruiting classes Ty's last two years than ND did? No one is saying that being waxed at home by Michigan State is acceptable and going 0-4 is acceptable, but when you can say that Purdue and Michigan State have better talent in their junior and senior classes, that's a pretty big problem for a program that only wants to and only can compete for a national championship.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2004 Notre Dame's Class was ranked 30th by Scout. Purdue was ranked 32nd and MSU 13th. In 2005 Notre Dame's class was ranked 27th. Purdue's was ranked 26th and MSU 40th. Add it all up and it is very close. MSU was a lil better, Purdue a lil worse.

Nothing annoys me more than Notre Dame excuses. At least look up facts before you make them up.

[Dudd]

[ QUOTE ]
At least if we lose every game, we get the top pick !

Wait, crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we get Kevin McHale to take over USC and have have his Oline transfer over? Worked for the Celtics.

Also, Rivals is considered better and ranked ND last each year. Either way, recruiting at a Michigan St or Purdue level is unacceptable and is reason enough to fire a head coach, regardless of what his predecessor does.

[DesertCat]

LOL at recruiting classes rankings. You act as if some a snot nosed magazine editor's opinion of 17 year old kids potential is gospel. Weis won a lot of games with Ty's recruits. They produced two first round talents last year alone. Recruiting can't be evaluated on signing day, only the results matter. And based on NFL signings Ty's first class was very strong.

[FlyWf]

[ QUOTE ]


You are aware that Purdue and Michigan State had more highly ranked recruiting classes Ty's last two years than ND did?



[/ QUOTE ]

The 32, 40, 8, 8 = 119 argument pops up again!
Incredible.

Purdue, by the way, same 4 years?

20, 29, 50, 59.

Obviously Purdue will be a substantial dog.

Ohio State hasn't had a class ranked higher than 8 since 2002. Their two deep is younger than Notre Dame's and includes several 06 and 07 recruits. Ty's fault!

Jake Locker was an 06 recruit.

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the same delusion that afflicts Alabama fans. The world is different now. Most high school recruits can barely remember a time when ND was competing for National Championships. They could care less about teams from the 60s and 70s, Touchdown Jesus, Ara Parseghian, Knute Rockne, waking up the echoes, that stupid leprechaun, etc.

Team speed is a bigger part of the college game than it used to be. A disproportionate amount of the speed is in Florida and California. Kids from FL and CA do not want to move to South Bend, especially when they can go to Florida or USC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain why Ohio State has done well then. Especially at recruiting in Florida.

[Dudd]

If you can't see that there is a huge correlation between recruiting classes and on field performance, well, you're beyond hope. It's not ironclad, obviously, and apparently you can throw it out the window when it comes to the Big East, but if you want to be a national championship contender, getting consistent good to great recruiting classes seems to be the way to give yourself the best chance of success, unless you truly believe that Wisconsin and Rutgers and WVU are competitive with the USC, LSU, and Oklahomas of the world. And again, this isn't an excuse for Weis, as you can see there are plenty of teams who have recruited on a similar level as Ty did that have achieved success, he has royally [censored] up this transition year, but it's not as if ND was on a great upward trajectory before he arrived and if we'd have just waited long enough, Ty would have turned into Rich Rodriguez and been able to coach up mediocre talent/find diamonds in the rough.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Team 2004 2005 2006 2007 Weighted Ave (4, 3, 2, 1)

USC (43) 1 1 1 2 1.1
LSU (22) 2 22 7 4 9.2
Oklahoma 8 3 9 14 7.3
Florida 7 15 2 1 7.8
WVU 47 31 52 23 40.8
Cal 23 9 19 22 17.9
Texas 10 20 5 5 11.5
OSU 9 12 12 15 11.1
Wisconsin 39 33 42 34 37.3
Rutgers 52 68 45 37 53.9

ND 32 40 8 8 27.2
</pre><hr />