Please post your favorite Bible verses here - Page 11

Magic_Man · #**101** 02-22-2007, 04:34 PM

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And thus it becomes a matter of perspective at the question at hand, you're perspective differs from mine and hence we can't agree on there existing a logical answer.

You're asking a believer to chose between two versions of gods, one which does not comply with his beliefs and which does, and then stating that they are identical except for actions they commited/did not commit which makes one better than the other. It's abit illogical in itself, since they clearly can't be identical anymore.

If given (1) and (2), and statement A proves (1) is correct, which do you chose? That's the gist of your statements.

But the one you are asking probably disagrees with (A).

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This all started because NotReady claimed that he WANTED the God of the Bible to exist, in preference of other Gods. He also claimed that Atheists do not want God to exist. My claim is that the latter is not generally true, and we've had threads about it before. He thumbed his nose at preferring other "imaginary Gods", and I'm trying to show that it is ridiculous to NOT prefer other imaginare Gods. Atheists shun the GOTB because (for one reason) he is a mass murderer.

tame_deuces · #**102** 02-22-2007, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And thus it becomes a matter of perspective at the question at hand, you're perspective differs from mine and hence we can't agree on there existing a logical answer.

You're asking a believer to chose between two versions of gods, one which does not comply with his beliefs and which does, and then stating that they are identical except for actions they commited/did not commit which makes one better than the other. It's abit illogical in itself, since they clearly can't be identical anymore.

If given (1) and (2), and statement A proves (1) is correct, which do you chose? That's the gist of your statements.

But the one you are asking probably disagrees with (A).

[/ QUOTE ]

This all started because NotReady claimed that he WANTED the God of the Bible to exist, in preference of other Gods. He also claimed that Atheists do not want God to exist. My claim is that the latter is not generally true, and we've had threads about it before. He thumbed his nose at preferring other "imaginary Gods", and I'm trying to show that it is ridiculous to NOT prefer other imaginare Gods. Atheists shun the GOTB because (for one reason) he is a mass murderer.

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Ah there you see how reading a thread in MSP too fast can lead one astray sometimes, I guess I had the wrong angle, sorry about that.

The old testament god is fairly different from the more forgiving god in the new testament though, so the christian god has a very different image from the more 'hebrew' god you refer too.

Being an atheist I can't say I have any great interest in god NOT existing though, that's a weird argument.

Well, I'll argue this no more, as I obviously jumped into a different argument than I thought it was. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

NotReady · #**103** 02-22-2007, 05:35 PM

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Are you saying god did not murder people in Exodus, or that they were not innocent?

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God murders no one. Murder implies wrongdoing.

Magic_Man · #**104** 02-22-2007, 05:45 PM

Oxford English Dictionary:

murder: To slaughter in a terrible manner, to massacre.

Exodus 11: 4-6:
Moses said, "Thus says the LORD, 'About midnight I am going out into the midst of Egypt, and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of the Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the millstones; all the firstborn of the cattle as well. Moreover, there shall be a great cry in all the land of Egypt, such as there has not been before and such as shall never be again.

Regardless of any connotations you may associate to "murder," God directly caused the death of many hundreds of thousands of lives. Replace "murder" with "caused the death of" in the above posts if it makes you feel better.

NotReady · #**105** 02-22-2007, 05:49 PM

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God directly caused the death of many hundreds of thousands of lives.

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The death of every creature that has ever lived or ever will live is within the will of God.

stormstarter28 · #**106** 02-22-2007, 09:55 PM

"Atheists shun the GOTB because (for one reason) he is a mass murderer."

Here is my take on that...for the record, I am a Christian, but I am not here to argue with all you nonbelievers, just to offer my perspective on this issue. I believe that in the times of the Old Testament, God was an angry God and that He was full of wrath. I also believe that God is completely just, and if He did kill all of these people, He had a justified reason in doing so. Just because we can't understand why He did this doesn't make it wrong...there are countless reasons He may have done this. (Example: being all knowing, perhaps He knew these people He killed would destroy the world, or something of the sort. I'm not saying this is the case, it's just an example of why God would do something that is justified but we can't understand.)
Back to the main point...I believe He used to be full of wrath, but He sent Jesus to die for our sins, and since this ultimate sacrifice has occurred, His wrath is subdued and He is now a God of mercy. I believe the world is much worse now than it was in the time of the Old Testament, and that if He were still a God of wrath, we would all have been destroyed by now. (Before some of you freak out and rip my post apart, keep in mind that I am relatively young, I am new to theological arguments, and I am trying to learn, so go easy on me.)

vhawk01 · #**107** 02-22-2007, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Atheists shun the GOTB because (for one reason) he is a mass murderer."

Here is my take on that...for the record, I am a Christian, but I am not here to argue with all you nonbelievers, just to offer my perspective on this issue. I believe that in the times of the Old Testament, God was an angry God and that He was full of wrath. I also believe that God is completely just, and if He did kill all of these people, He had a justified reason in doing so. Just because we can't understand why He did this doesn't make it wrong...there are countless reasons He may have done this. (Example: being all knowing, perhaps He knew these people He killed would destroy the world, or something of the sort. I'm not saying this is the case, it's just an example of why God would do something that is justified but we can't understand.)
Back to the main point...I believe He used to be full of wrath, but He sent Jesus to die for our sins, and since this ultimate sacrifice has occurred, His wrath is subdued and He is now a God of mercy. I believe the world is much worse now than it was in the time of the Old Testament, and that if He were still a God of wrath, we would all have been destroyed by now. (Before some of you freak out and rip my post apart, keep in mind that I am relatively young, I am new to theological arguments, and I am trying to learn, so go easy on me.)

[/ QUOTE ]

God can't be angry.

madnak · #**108** 02-22-2007, 10:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Atheists shun the GOTB because (for one reason) he is a mass murderer."

Here is my take on that...for the record, I am a Christian, but I am not here to argue with all you nonbelievers, just to offer my perspective on this issue. I believe that in the times of the Old Testament, God was an angry God and that He was full of wrath. I also believe that God is completely just, and if He did kill all of these people, He had a justified reason in doing so. Just because we can't understand why He did this doesn't make it wrong...there are countless reasons He may have done this. (Example: being all knowing, perhaps He knew these people He killed would destroy the world, or something of the sort. I'm not saying this is the case, it's just an example of why God would do something that is justified but we can't understand.)
Back to the main point...I believe He used to be full of wrath, but He sent Jesus to die for our sins, and since this ultimate sacrifice has occurred, His wrath is subdued and He is now a God of mercy. I believe the world is much worse now than it was in the time of the Old Testament, and that if He were still a God of wrath, we would all have been destroyed by now. (Before some of you freak out and rip my post apart, keep in mind that I am relatively young, I am new to theological arguments, and I am trying to learn, so go easy on me.)

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I say... 70% probability you'll be an atheist someday.

vhawk01 · #**109** 02-22-2007, 10:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Atheists shun the GOTB because (for one reason) he is a mass murderer."

Here is my take on that...for the record, I am a Christian, but I am not here to argue with all you nonbelievers, just to offer my perspective on this issue. I believe that in the times of the Old Testament, God was an angry God and that He was full of wrath. I also believe that God is completely just, and if He did kill all of these people, He had a justified reason in doing so. Just because we can't understand why He did this doesn't make it wrong...there are countless reasons He may have done this. (Example: being all knowing, perhaps He knew these people He killed would destroy the world, or something of the sort. I'm not saying this is the case, it's just an example of why God would do something that is justified but we can't understand.)
Back to the main point...I believe He used to be full of wrath, but He sent Jesus to die for our sins, and since this ultimate sacrifice has occurred, His wrath is subdued and He is now a God of mercy. I believe the world is much worse now than it was in the time of the Old Testament, and that if He were still a God of wrath, we would all have been destroyed by now. (Before some of you freak out and rip my post apart, keep in mind that I am relatively young, I am new to theological arguments, and I am trying to learn, so go easy on me.)

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I say... 70% probability you'll be an atheist someday.

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His ending parenthetical alone puts it at 50%. Throw in the 'posting style at the exact opposite end of the spectrum from SitNHit' and I'd be willing to give you 7:3 on it.

stormstarter28 · #**110** 02-22-2007, 11:11 PM

I've read SitNHit's posts before, and just because he is close minded on the issues and I am not doesn't mean I will become atheist. I am trying to learn specifically to strengthen my faith, not to go against it. I am very dedicated to following Christ and have no doubt in my mind that I will follow him until the day I die...I respect your opinions on the matter, but I think if you really knew me you wouldn't be saying these things. I think I am rare in that I am a very skeptical, rational, and logical person, yet I still have strong faith in God. I want to learn what nonbelievers and other religions believe so I can understand my own faith even more.