Extremism, why not more common?

[JaredL]

Muslim extremism is a big issue today in the US and other Western countries. While I don't know a ton about Islam, for example I don't actually know the difference in beliefs of Sunni versus Shia muslims, I'm not terribly surprised that there are a lot of extremists. On some issues, religion is one, I'm surprised there aren't more.

Consider Christianity. I'm personally not a Christian, nor are most all of my friends. Those I know that are Christians aren't really big into it and in all honesty probably don't know much about the religion themselves. I'm not talking here about either of these groups. The question I have is about those who fully believe in Christianity and all it entails. Among other things, they believe in eternal afterlife in heaven if God judges you to be worthy. Similarly, eternal damnation if He judges you worthy of that. Given that eternity is a hell of a lot longer than life on Earth, why aren't these people doing literally everything they can during this relatively short lifetime to get into heaven? If I was a Christian I think I would be a monk or a priest or something along those lines, and it's hard for me to understand any other path given those beliefs.

Similarly, I don't see how it's ethical for Christians to not be doing everything they can to convert friends, family members, and even total strangers. I'm happy that they aren't as I would find it obnoxious and the act of trying to convert people condescending, but again if you think your friends and family stand a reasonable chance of burning in hell for an eternity, I don't see how it's ethical for you to NOT put as much effort as possible into trying to increase the chance that this isn't their ultimate outcome. It's the same for other religions that have the same payoff structure.

Another issue that I see as similar is abortion. I don't understand how people can view abortion as 100% equivalent to murder and also not make every effort possible to put a stop to it. Again, I'm not referring to people that don't really have an opinion either way, believe a fetus has some value less than that of a live baby, or what have you. I'm only referring to people that believe that an abortion is equivalent to killing a month old baby.

According to http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html (I got there by googling abortion statistics and have looked at nothing else on the site, it's apparently a pro-life site) there are about 46 million abortions a year worldwide and 1.37 million abortions per year in the US, 3700 per day. For reference, according to wikipedia, the population of California is 36 million and there are 10 states with a popluation and there are 11 states whose populations are less than 1.37 million. Given that these people believe that well over a million people a year are murdered in this way in the US, how is this not by far the biggest political issue, so large that by comparison nothing else matters basically at all? If you believe abortion and murder to be equivalent, then you basically believe that doctors are combining to pull off a September 11th level atrocity every single day of the year as the numbers are very similar. Even if those figures are distorted, the number of abortions is certainly large enough to make this by far the biggest issue for those that have this belief.

While it may appear I'm picking on the right, there are similar issues on the left. Global warming being perhaps the hottest one right now (HA!). There are plenty of people who think that if things continue on the same path we will almost certainly have an ice age or some other hugely catastrophic climate shift. None the less these people expend lots of effort on other things. I think stopping a coming ice age should be one's primary goal, short of the getting into heaven argument presented above.

So in the above and other similar situations, why aren't people running around like their hair is on fire? Some of it I guess is strategic. If a friend wanted to convert me the way to go wouldn't be to bring it up every single day as I would stop talking to them. Similarly politicians whose lone goal is to end all abortion won't do well in national elections and the global warming people are still viewed with a lot of skepticism so they can't push just that openly. Obviously it could simply be that people don't believe what they claim. I'm sure this is the case for some, but surely some people have the views and actions I describe above.

Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

Jared

[El Diablo]

Jared,

Short answer is I think there are tons of social/cultural things that condition most to fit within a certain middle ground of beliefs/ideologies/positions. Things are extreme becasue, well, they are extreme.

Maybe we can have a better discussion if you pick a couple of specifics to drill down on where you would expect a higher number of very vocal/ardent activists?

[Kimbell175113]

I agree with OP, and think that every once in a while this can be used as an argument against certain points of view. If you truly believed that the government, or some other conspiracy, organized 9/11, for example (which quite a few people claim to believe), then how can you live with yourself when you don't do everything you can to overthrow those responsible or put on a V for Vendetta mask and start causing a ruckus?

Not that having contradictory beliefs is super uncommon, but when they deal with the really big stuff, it's more surprising to me.

[guids]

Jared,

Im pretty extreme in all my views, I see everythign as black and white, most people, on the forums at least, think Im an ok guy, except for political views etc. Most people are too weak or self-conscience, or care too much about how people perceive them to state, or even have more extreme views.

[MrMon]

Extremism is by definition, held by an extreme minority. If everyone held that view, it would be a mainstream view, not extreme. Extreme views can become mainstream, take Nazism, prohibition, or civil rights, for example, but more often than not, extreme views remain on the extreme. Why? Because so few people hold the view and it requires so much energy to convert the unconverted, those that hold the view just beome exhausted and move on to other things. Moving millions requires extraordinary energy, and most of us have other things to do.

[Kimbell175113]

But Jared is saying that you don't have to convert anyone. They already claim to hold those beliefs, yet act in ways that contradict them. For example, if abortion=murder, then blowing up clinics is +++EV. There must be something huge on the side of "doing nothing" that cancels that out (if the beliefs are sincere).

[idrinkcoors]

"why aren't these people (Christians) doing literally everything they can during this relatively short lifetime to get into heaven? "

Jared,

El Diablo may delete this because I'm probably hijaking, but us Christians belive that if you accept Jesus as your savior, (sincerly), then you are going to heaven. Yes, good works, tithing, should be done, but there aren't any other merit badge requirements.

You may disagree with that belief, but that is the core belief.

[JaredL]

[ QUOTE ]
"why aren't these people (Christians) doing literally everything they can during this relatively short lifetime to get into heaven? "

Jared,

El Diablo may delete this because I'm probably hijaking, but us Christians belive that if you accept Jesus as your savior, (sincerly), then you are going to heaven. Yes, good works, tithing, should be done, but there aren't any other merit badge requirements.

You may disagree with that belief, but that is the core belief.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine, I don't care to debate this nor would I really be able to since I don't know a ton about Christianity relative to people that are Christians and know their stuff.

Given this belief that you have, do you do everything that you can to convince people you care about to accept Jesus as their personal saviour? Do you disagree with me when I say that it is immoral for Christians to not do so?

[JaredL]

[ QUOTE ]
But Jared is saying that you don't have to convert anyone. They already claim to hold those beliefs, yet act in ways that contradict them. For example, if abortion=murder, then blowing up clinics is +++EV. There must be something huge on the side of "doing nothing" that cancels that out (if the beliefs are sincere).

[/ QUOTE ]

Right.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I don't understand when it comes to certain issues how people could hold certain beliefs and not act in a manner that we would consider to be quite extreme. Given these beliefs, one should expect the holder to dedicate their entire life to the cause as nothing should be close in importance.

[LyinKing]

"Extremism, why not more common?"

Is there an internet version of the Tonight Show's Headlines segment? This would fit nicely.