Micro FR discussion

[Jurrr]

I see exactly what you mean King Spew.

a) Poker money is poker money. Just because you can deposit, say, $4k and be rolled for NL200 immediately doesn't mean you should.

b) Being a bankroll nit is OK if your goal is satisfaction from the game and not the utmost EV+. Stress that we face playing a level we're not comfortable at has a cost of its own, especially if your goal is easy enjoyment of the game.

Right now, for example, I play NL200 to make money and PLO25 to relax.

[King Spew]

Juu

(b) I like to win so it's not all for entertainment [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I just find I play my absolute best when I have such a huge roll for my stakes. Kinda like having 250BB on a table full of 75BB players. Similar, but not the same.

(Q) I'm also determined not to deposit any of my own money [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[checkmate36]

Good stuff King! Thanks for sharing.
Im going to digest that for a bit and discuss that post further. That really was interesting.

Part of my problem is learning to deal with the variance of the game. I started of playing LHE and when I would play a hand well but get sucked out on, that was hard for me to deal with.

Im just now coming to grips with the fact that the game sometimes favors the fish. If it didn't, they wouldn't play and that means I don't get to play.

I just dropped my first buy-in at 10NL and actually thought it was funny instead of going on tilt. I still have alot of work to do to accept the fact of downswings are part of the game. I often stop playing if Im at a good table but down too much or if Im at a good table but up 'big' to bank a nice win.

I just read a good book that deals with the long term and tilt and wish it had come out when I first started playing. If anyone is interested its on Hilgers homepage internettexasholdem.com

[thunderbolt]

Was it a good read?

[checkmate36]

I liked it very much. Im not sure what more experienced players will think about it but Im glad I read it.

Kind of put things into perspective. The only thing that I noticed is that it leans towards a LHE perspective. Thats just being a nit though.

[Jay.Yang]

I started playing 10NL @ Stars around 2 months ago with initial BR of $50 (Yes! I was not aware of BR management at the time). Luckily I ran hot in my first 10k hand @ ~9.5PTBB/100. I then took a shot (as suggested by King) at 25NL, however I was immediately down 3 BI within 1K hands (over pair vs set, set vs set, KK vs AA PF). This force me to get back down and grind more at 10NL. As of now, I have 30K hands and run at 5 PTBB/100.

Weaknesses
1. Too result oriented that I will usually want to play until i have a winning session. And if I win or lose big, I get intimidated and become more weak tight.
2. I don't take enough notes and don't pay enough attention on opponents because I am 6-tabling most of the time.
3. I do not value bet enough on River because I am often afraid of people slow playing monster. This is prob because of multi-tabling that I don't develop a better hand reading

I plan to build my roll to $300 and I will attempt 25NL 1-2 table at a time.

[checkmate36]

I made a spreadsheet on google to kind of put some of this stuff together and see what, if anything stands out.

The players with the most loot tend to be the ones with tons of hands played.

the main problems we are seeing so far are...
-2 of us said results oriented/variance
-2 have said play is too loose (vpip too high)
a few have also mentioned bankroll management.

some didn't list any particular problems and some seem to have gotten off on the fast track (Bahuny [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])

Most of us started off with about $50. Some have started with much less (landlord79 $12 [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])

King spew's post is very motivating IMO.

Not sure if this helps or not but thought it would be interesting to put all this info together.

Seems we need tight play, good bankroll management that allows shot taking while moving down, play lots of hands. As far as lots of hands, maybe we should all be playing at least a few tables at once. PT/PAHUD/GT+ is used by most and multi-tables should not be that hard.

Lots of good background info. Im sure we will all help each other to get to the higher games.

[LearningCurve]

KingSpew, I enjoyed reading your posts and found your comments to be beneficial.

Checkmate, I'm hoping my local library will get that book in. I'll definitely check it out if/when they do.

As for my background, I'm a fish out of water here in the fr forum as I've been exclusively playing 6-max now since February. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I began playing on PS in October after reading several books. Had never played any form of poker before. Basically played a shortstack strategy, without understanding anything about it. Subsequently, my post-flop game was very weak.

In late December I found 2+2 and my eyes were opened. I quickly realized I wasn't rolled for the 10/25 tables I'd been playing and I stepped down to 5/10. Began to actually watch my bankroll go up a bit single-tabling fr.

In mid-February at the encouragement of a friend, I began playing 6-max exclusively. By then though I was already plugged into the fr forum. I like the people here, the smaller size of the forum has a more intimate feel, and the higher limits mean posters hang around for longer.

I'm still struggling some with 6-max. I find the variance to be larger than in fr. However, I do like that it is forcing me to really work hard on my hand/opponent reading as well as on learning to work through marginal situations a bit more effectively. I am still not quite to breakeven there, but I seem to slowly but surely be moving in a mostly consistent positive direction.

I now suspect I could fairly easily multi-table a few fr tables, but I'm still only able to comfortably play one table of 6-max at a time without feeling like my head is going to explode. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Will continue to work at it though.

My biggest issues seem to be largely mental. I'd like to get past worrying about whether I'm up or down at a particular session. I find I'm too frequently hell-bent on staying at a table until I'm at least breakeven even when I should leave, i.e., being outplayed (aggro Lag on left), having too many short stacks, or too few players left at the table. I also find it difficult to try to put many 10NL villains on a range of hands. Frequently it's pretty much atc and I'm just hoping they won't somehow suck out on me. This leads to a tendency to want to bet a bit higher at the early streets and then fearfully check the river afraid that there is somehow a monster lurking somewhere there. Although I think I have the early streets under control now, I'm still needing a fair amount of work on my river bets (or lack thereof). Again, I think this is largely a mental issue which needs to be worked through.

Overall, I find poker to be extremely interesting, a tremendous challenge, and there is always room to learn and grow. What more could you possibly want?!

[checkmate36]

King- what site do you play on?

Do you use PT/HUD and how many table do you think is a good minimum number for a player in the lower limits like us?

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
King spew's post is very motivating IMO.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

I'm just passing it on. For me, without Tien's thread, I would still be on the 10NL and 25NL tables. Enjoying... but kinda treading water.

Take shots! Often. Challenge yourself once a month. Personally, I play 50NL/100NL tables all the time. But once a week, I'll play two tables at either 200NL or 400NL.

I'll tell you something about variance. It's a non-issue for me since I play overolled.

And it's a non-issue since I haven't played 25NL and under in a while.

Micro (under 50NL IMO) Variance.... well, I think it has something to do with you ability to NOT play some hands when the wrong situation shows up. I will OFTEN fold TP on the flop. I don't mess around with a 2 to a flush flop or three to a str8. Play poker on the other flops,,, these you leave alone unless they solidly hit you. I try NEVER to be the table cop.

Another way to think of variance. If you go five cycles around without playing a hand (nine handed), you're down 7.5BB. The vary next hand you pick up KK and 4XBB PFR and get two callers. Flop falls without an ace and you pot it,,, both fold. You're up half a BB playing 46 hands. Not bad for card dead really. I'm guessing in the next 45 hands, you get a few more hands to play..and win. What I'm trying to say is variance can be caused by playing marginal hands in marginal situations. If you are card dead, you are supposed to break even or lose a little. Don't force it! It's not really variance when you are playing when you shouldn't.... it's just bad play.