A Quick Challenge on Preflop Equity; No Cheating!

[Scarmiglio]

After checking - I'm not far off. I think my biggest mistake is underestimating the value of the junk hand although if it really were a junk hand the value would be less than in the calculation. The calculator is using "random" so it assumes the guy could have anything from AA - 72o which isn't necessarily realistic based on the preflop action.

[Scarmiglio]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop 3

we call, sb folds, ace calls in the BB, and bob calls.

for the following flop what is everyone's equity?

Flop(8sb): K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 65%
J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 15%
7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] = 8%
Junk = 12%

This one is a little tougher.

[Scarmiglio]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop 4

we call, sb folds, ace calls in the BB, and bob calls.

for the following flop what is everyone's equity?

Flop(8sb):K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 50%
J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 35%
7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 5%
Junk = 10%

[Scarmiglio]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop 5

we call, sb folds, ace calls in the BB, and bob calls.

for the following flop what is everyone's equity?

Flop(8sb): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 43%
J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 47%
7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] = 5%
Junk = 5%

This one is tough. The Straight Flush draw get's discounted a bit because it's a gutter, and the 2 pair isn't quite as strong as a set in the previous example.

[Scarmiglio]

This is a good challenge James. You really got me thinking. After comparing my estimates to the results I can say that I must run enough stoves that I have a pretty good feel for this kind of thing. My last 2 were a lot closer than I thought I was going to be. Thanks!

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a good challenge James. You really got me thinking. After comparing my estimates to the results I can say that I must run enough stoves that I have a pretty good feel for this kind of thing. My last 2 were a lot closer than I thought I was going to be. Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

good job on actually addressing all of the flops. it's pretty extensive and you're the first to put it in post anyway.

a big part of this exercise is looking at the flops from everyone's point of view, even though "we" have the JhTh in the OP. it helps to see how these situations intertwine or relate and then subsequently change as different variables are presented.

[fishyak]

Bob = 31
Al = 29
us = 26
junk = 14

[Nytecaster]

bob with his 77: 26%
al with his AKs: 32%
ace with his junk: 12%
us with JTs: 30%

[Nytecaster]

[ QUOTE ]
It's more useful to know your equity versus a villain's range than a specific hand. The latter rarely comes up and when it does, your hand plays itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you cannot come up with good guestimates on a single hand vs a single hand, how can you determine range values when it becomes that much more complicated? I know what you are saying here and am not contradicting it in anyway. What I am saying is that if you cannot relyably understand how a hand values when it is known, how can one possibly value a range vs a range?

This is a great topic.

[Nytecaster]

I've seen quite a few mistakes from people in this thread. They overvalue pocket pairs against a field and don't understand how the junk hand will affect play. While a PP should hold up it's share of the time against a single hand, the more overcards it has to deal with less likely it will be ahead.

As far as the junk hand, you really only have three cards that are gonna play good when you hit them, an 8, 9 or Q many of which may complete flushes or straights. Everything 7 and under is dominated by the 77 hand and everything T and over is outkicked by the other hands most of the time. Of course we're going to make two pair our share of the time and hold out on top pair the other share.