WTF

[jfish]

ok, villain here is unknown. 6 handed.

Hero UTG $440
Villain UTG+1 $440

Preflop
Hero opens for $14 UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Villain calls, rest of table folds.

Flop Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets $26, villain thinks for a few seconds and calls.

Turn 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero checks (i dont like this check in retrospect), villain checks.

River K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks (?), villain bets $50, Hero raises to $150. Villain shoves for $200 more..

[RuffRhyder]

Can't really see that you can ever be good here. The odds are good, but he's got to be very bad to do this with anything you beat. Don't like your turn check, and I'm not sure there's much value in the river c/r against an unknown.

[snakekilla88]

as you kinda stated turn check is pretty bad. river can easily go chk chk so after missing the turn bet I still prefer to lead over a river cr.

As played river is sorta a tough fold versus an unknown. Yet, most unknowns arent retarded anymore so you are going to see a boat more often then not.

[Triumph36]

man i hate this line

what he's got is a mystery - i mean the highest spade he can have is the T, so it looks like an obvious fold - then again, he might be crazy and think he can get you off the A given the action. I wouldn't be surprised to see either KK or 9999 here, however - there aren't too many other holdings that make sense.

fwiw I don't like the turn or river check, nor the river check-raise - the CR is waaay too thin and is never being called by worse

[The Man]

why not check / call?

[jfish]

[ QUOTE ]
man i hate this line

what he's got is a mystery - i mean the highest spade he can have is the T, so it looks like an obvious fold - then again, he might be crazy and think he can get you off the A given the action. I wouldn't be surprised to see either KK or 9999 here, however - there aren't too many other holdings that make sense.

fwiw I don't like the turn or river check, nor the river check-raise - the CR is waaay too thin and is never being called by worse

[/ QUOTE ]

well, as i was telling skier, the raise is pretty much a freeroll. he RARELY has a fh+ here, i have a nut flush, and i raise small because i think i have the best hand 99% of the time. if he folds whatever, if he calls, good for him.

i likewise dont really like my line.

[Heichamato]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
man i hate this line

what he's got is a mystery - i mean the highest spade he can have is the T, so it looks like an obvious fold - then again, he might be crazy and think he can get you off the A given the action. I wouldn't be surprised to see either KK or 9999 here, however - there aren't too many other holdings that make sense.

fwiw I don't like the turn or river check, nor the river check-raise - the CR is waaay too thin and is never being called by worse

[/ QUOTE ]

well, as i was telling skier, the raise is pretty much a freeroll. he RARELY has a fh+ here, i have a nut flush, and i raise small because i think i have the best hand 99% of the time. if he folds whatever, if he calls, good for him.

i likewise dont really like my line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is he even calling you with 10high flush 1% of the times?

[jfish]

shrug ive c/red river on 4 flush boards and gotten called by crap before. dont know how applicable it is in this situation though given its utg v utg+1 and no history.

[skier_5]

I feel like posting my thoughts. Preflop villian could have any number of hands all depending on how loose he is pps, suited connects, broadways. Since we have the nfd card on the flop it is unlikely that villian calls the flop with just a flush draw. If he has a spade in his hand it's likely combined with some sort of pair, including pps. Turn card obviously kind of sucks, but it isn't a terrible card by any means. I'd lead the turn here for sure since I would do the same with the lone As and he would likely expect the same so he might be able to find a call with a lot of the one pair hands that he called the flop with on, but since we checked and he checked behind I think that he likely has something. Probably not a baby flush anymore since he usually at least raises the flop/bets turn with that. A boat is unlikely since the same goes for it as well. Though I think it's more likely than a baby flush. I think he might bet KQ or something sometimes too. I'd probably just lead river here since he might make a hero call and he will check behind lots of his range imo. I see your point about freerolling but people do show up here with boats and not a whole lot of spades, so it's pretty thin - maybe too thin.

I dunno im tired and prolly not making sense.

[Christophers]

I'd have just bet turn and river too. River is a very easy fold to the 3bet obviously.