NL25 monsterdraw ip now what?

WantToLearn · #1 10-30-2007, 09:35 AM

I need some advice here, thank you very much in advance!

Question: what next?

Reads: UTG+1 is a bad and juicy player. CO is a tight abc multitabler. He probably has some kind of more or less legit preflop hand even if he noticed that UTG+1 plays bad, or maybe better of course. BB is unknown.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($5.80)
UTG ($26.95)
UTG+1 ($46.95)
MP1 ($52.50)
MP2 ($20.65)
CO ($22.25)
Hero ($27.80)
SB ($30.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, CO raises to $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75, UTG+1 calls $0.75.

 I call because:
-> I have position
-> UTG+1 will pay if I hit
-> CO can be pushed off often should UTG+1 fold 

Flop: ($4.10) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets $1, Hero ???

Steelerman · #2 10-30-2007, 09:41 AM

I'd raise this up to $4.50-$5. You might just take it down with that weak bet from CO. If not, you most likely have 15 clean outs here. Another plus is if you hit a blank on the turn, CO is going to check almost always after your flop raise giving you the option of taking a free card.

CallMeJohn · #3 10-30-2007, 09:52 AM

Raise to $5 and call push.

Although calling is more likely to keep UTG+1 in the hand, the correct play is to raise and try to get it in with 2 cards to come.

As steeler mentioned, if you get called, you can take a free card on the turn.

GermanGuy · #4 10-30-2007, 09:58 AM

CO shows a really strange betting pattern here. If he really is an ABC player betting 1/4 of the pot seems a little weak as a value bet. Maybe he is just trying to get some information on other people's holdings, but this seems like he is trying to get everyone to call. Wouldn't surprise me if he held 2 diamonds two. Giving his preflop raise AJ seems likely, but KQ of a different street suit would also make sense.

I would raise here to around 4. Let's hope UTG+1 calls. Be caoutious if CO calls too. In a three way pot UTG+1 might give him the odds to call with a marginal hand, but if he has AJ [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], it is easy for you to lose your stack on the turn or river...

GermanGuy · #5 10-30-2007, 10:02 AM

I'm not sure about calling a push. Your overcard outs likely aren't good then anymore and even the diamond outs might be "tainted" by AJ [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

ActionStan · #6 10-30-2007, 10:13 AM

I think raising the flop is fine, but I like a turn bluff better than a flop bluff. A lot of the time I think you want to smooth call here to let the blind and UTG+1 players in. You have a very strong draw and you have the chance to create bigger multiway pot. If you drag another player along, the pot is better sized for a bigger turn bluff if you don't happen to catch one of your cards.

If the BB happens to shove, I think you're happy enough to flip coins with him. If the BB shoves and the CO were to over shove, then I would curse the poker gods and let it go.

Brimstead · #7 10-30-2007, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If he really is an ABC player betting 1/4 of the pot seems a little weak as a value bet. Maybe he is just trying to get some information on other people's holdings, but this seems like he is trying to get everyone to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not so sure at this stage we can say he is trying to get every1 to call. I remember a number of ABC multitablers at nl25 who made v.small c-bets. It surprised me at first, but then i realised some of these people were on 12 tables at a time, making these micro bets consistently when they were weak... i had them marked in my notes and usually raised them out of the hand successfully.
thats may not be the case here, but its certainly a weak tendency i have identified in certain players.

toxzen · #8 10-30-2007, 10:20 AM

I'm reraises flop everytime with this hand.

ActionStan · #9 10-30-2007, 10:27 AM

Any particular reasoning behind that or just because it's a strong draw? Do you just want to end the hand early because it's multiway?

Here's my thinking. Looking at the hand, the primary villain is weak here most of the time. If we don't take it away now, we can still take it away on the turn. If he's weak almost any card that catches him up a bit makes our hand stronger. No? The only hand we're worried about is if he's blocking with AdXd. If he has that hand, I doubt we're bumping him off it with our raise. Lots of good things happen for us if he makes a worse draw than ours or catches an A. I don't think we give much up when we wait for the turn.

xxrod17xx · #10 10-30-2007, 10:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm reraises flop everytime with this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I do is because he isn't going to put you on the FD if you hit it and a SD is even more disguised. You probably have the best hand here and he will also likely check to you on the turn regardless of his hand. He he re-raises the flop just shove.