Still adjusting to shorthanded o8

[greatwhite]

Ok, here's something I've found out in the past few months taking up shorthanded o8. The lower limits are often like a full ring ring game since 5 people are often seeing the flop. However, in a tuff game a hand like A229 or A337 is really not playable. Where as in a loose game A578 is less playable since more people will be seeing flops with garbage like KJ42 or 9832 and as you know the more people in the more likely A5 will not hold up for a low. Hands like QQ42 or KK53 also become less playable so it seems. I guess what I'm asking is how do you figure out what to play in a 6 handed game due to the amount of people in the pot?

[TxRedMan]

In SH O8, a hand with A2 is going to be a favorite over almost any other hand, albeit not by much.

That being said, I highly reccomend using table selection standards in SH O8, as you will often be able to find two or sometimes three terrible players in a game, and try and make quality decisions throughout the hands which will enable you to beat the game more frequently.

Starting hand selection in SH O8 is an issue, and you've displayed an intuition for the game by bringing up a subject that requires a lot of thought to come to a final answer.

I think you're wrong in some of what you said, and it sounds like a small sample size with variance related results might be what is causing the pain. You named several hands that you dubbed unplayable, but I will take A229 all day in a SH game with 5 people seeing the flop.


From my experience, playing the blinds is the most important part of SH O8.

As far as loosening up your standards or vice versa, I would reccomend that you still maintain decent standards and play your strong hands as aggressive as possible, including low only hands in 3-way+ pots.


GL

-tex

[greatwhite]

[ QUOTE ]
In SH O8, a hand with A2 is going to be a favorite over almost any other hand, albeit not by much.

That being said, I highly reccomend using table selection standards in SH O8, as you will often be able to find two or sometimes three terrible players in a game, and try and make quality decisions throughout the hands which will enable you to beat the game more frequently.

Starting hand selection in SH O8 is an issue, and you've displayed an intuition for the game by bringing up a subject that requires a lot of thought to come to a final answer.

I think you're wrong in some of what you said, and it sounds like a small sample size with variance related results might be what is causing the pain. You named several hands that you dubbed unplayable, but I will take A229 all day in a SH game with 5 people seeing the flop.


From my experience, playing the blinds is the most important part of SH O8.

As far as loosening up your standards or vice versa, I would reccomend that you still maintain decent standards and play your strong hands as aggressive as possible, including low only hands in 3-way+ pots.


GL

-tex

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, but I was talking about A229 in a tuff shorthanded game meaning that only a few players were seeing the flop, usually with a lot of preflop raising. In that case, would a hand like A239 even be playable? Although it looks juicy it doesn't have much going for the high end.

[PorkPieHat]

Greatwhite, one thing to consider with A229 is that it has some definite bluff potential in a tight game like that. You can get the low locked up and then be able to bet at scare cards that hit the turn and/or river with a smaller than normal chance of being quartered (as you have half the deuces).

Whether this is enough of a +ev aspect to offset the times you catch nothing, well, I'm not sure. But it's probably worth consideration.

[Scott Y.]

[ QUOTE ]
Greatwhite, one thing to consider with A229 is that it has some definite bluff potential in a tight game like that. You can get the low locked up and then be able to bet at scare cards that hit the turn and/or river with a smaller than normal chance of being quartered (as you have half the deuces)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the idea, but I wouldn't overrate the bluffing potential. In a tough game, as long as you seem sane (many tough players use a different image), you won't get much good action when the board comes low and you're facing some blinds, and you'll get played back at on high boards. If you can raise some high hands in the interim (not just AKQJ-ish hands, but occasionally A6KQ/KK43/etc.) you can reach a decent balance.

An awful situation occurs when you raise only low hands (or super-premium, negligible high hands like AAKQ) and your opponents realize that high boards can only hit you with flush draws and single pairs the vast majority, while low boards are a no fly zone. This can be a profitable image for you, but it's a terrible way to play against tough players who bluff smart.

[greatwhite]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Greatwhite, one thing to consider with A229 is that it has some definite bluff potential in a tight game like that. You can get the low locked up and then be able to bet at scare cards that hit the turn and/or river with a smaller than normal chance of being quartered (as you have half the deuces)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the idea, but I wouldn't overrate the bluffing potential. In a tough game, as long as you seem sane (many tough players use a different image), you won't get much good action when the board comes low and you're facing some blinds, and you'll get played back at on high boards. If you can raise some high hands in the interim (not just AKQJ-ish hands, but occasionally A6KQ/KK43/etc.) you can reach a decent balance.

An awful situation occurs when you raise only low hands (or super-premium, negligible high hands like AAKQ) and your opponents realize that high boards can only hit you with flush draws and single pairs the vast majority, while low boards are a no fly zone. This can be a profitable image for you, but it's a terrible way to play against tough players who bluff smart.

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks. Often times I face a tough 30-60 game when the game becomes shorthanded. So should I be mucking my A239 or is this just too strong of a hand to muck. I know that that in a loose game the correct play would be to limp which I don't know should be done in a game where the pot is typically 2-3 handed since people will realize if I have a hand like KK42 or like A239. Now, someone suggested to me that I should limp with my drawing high hands as well. However, I disagree with that since then people will know I got a good multiway hand. In these tuff games I feel like I should be raising upfront or get out. I feel like my A239's should go in the muck upfront. However I also feel hands like 6543, QQ54, KK74, AKxx, AAxx, A678, QJT9, 8865, or even KJJ9 should be played a little more liberally and opened for a raise upfront. Now in a loose game I'll still play the QJT9 or KJJ9 and almost all AAxx, but pretty much all the other hands go in the muck with the exception of the strong AK's. However, now I'll start going back to a full table approach, playing my A2xx or A3xx.

[lemonPeel]

low limit short haned o8 is a total rake machine for the online casino.

if you want to play profitable short handed, you should be at 10/20 or higher. playing 2/4 3/6 just generates a butt load of rake.

[cero_z]

[ QUOTE ]
From my experience, playing the flop is the most important part of SH O8.


[/ QUOTE ]

[cero_z]

Hi greatwhite,

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, but I was talking about A229 in a tuff shorthanded game meaning that only a few players were seeing the flop, usually with a lot of preflop raising. In that case, would a hand like A239 even be playable? Although it looks juicy it doesn't have much going for the high end.

[/ QUOTE ]

abcx is a fukcing monster vs. any number of opponents. On many flops, you will have a draw to the nuts with some high potential. The nut-low potential is what matters, though, since you can often use it to leverage the whole pot from one opponent, or to charge them too much to get their high hand home.

You should be looking to get pots heads up before the flop nearly always, if you have a playable hand. Then the question becomes, "how many bets do I want to go in pre-flop with this hand?" You balance that concern with your desire to get heads up with the hand in order to determine whether it's worth playing at all. In the case of a23x shorthanded, it always is.

[wiseheart]

you sound like whatis6x7 where he
is always 3betting pf to try to get
headsup, but this doesn't seem to
work that often.

Seems to me SH 08 is less about cards
and more about waiting for weak competition/fish.