Batting The Pitcher 8th

mo42nyy · #1 09-27-2007, 07:41 PM

Larussa has gone back to hitting pitcher 8th like he did one year in an effort to get McGwire more at bats. He says he like to have Pujols bat in the first inning and likes to have 3 real hitters in front of him. Im not sure if this has been posted before but what do people think about this strategy? How about if a mananger starting batting a pitcher who can hit 6th or 7th ? Has anyone done this recently on a regular basis ?(I know dontrell willis hit 7th a few times a few years back) I know its not going to continue at this rate but Micah Owens is absolutely crushing the ball. In the event that he doesnt have much of an offesnive dropoff is there any reason why he shouldnt bat ealier in the lineup?

kyleb · #2 09-27-2007, 07:45 PM

Lineup construction matters very little in the grand scheme of things. Batting the pitcher 2nd might be a problem; batting him 8th probably isn't.

RedBean · #3 09-27-2007, 07:49 PM

As Kyle said, it has little relevance, but I think BP did a piece a few years back and it was postulated that the optimum lineup construction would have the pitcher, or worst hitter, batting as far as possible away from the best hitter, which would be 8th, as the best hitter should bat 3rd in order to gain slightly more at-bats in the 3rd hole rather the 4th.

I'll see if I can find it, but I'm sure someone around here has the article on speed dial.

kyleb · #4 09-27-2007, 07:53 PM

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As Kyle said, it has little relevance, but I think BP did a piece a few years back and it was postulated that the optimum lineup construction would have the pitcher, or worst hitter, batting as far as possible away from the best hitter, which would be 8th, as the best hitter should bat 3rd in order to gain slightly more at-bats in the 3rd hole rather the 4th.

I'll see if I can find it, but I'm sure someone around here has the article on speed dial.

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This is true. The lineup analyzer (Google for it) indicates this is accurate as well. I used it for my Little League lineups occasionally. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

vhawk01 · #5 09-27-2007, 11:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As Kyle said, it has little relevance, but I think BP did a piece a few years back and it was postulated that the optimum lineup construction would have the pitcher, or worst hitter, batting as far as possible away from the best hitter, which would be 8th, as the best hitter should bat 3rd in order to gain slightly more at-bats in the 3rd hole rather the 4th.

I'll see if I can find it, but I'm sure someone around here has the article on speed dial.

[/ QUOTE ]

BP demonstrated that the best hitter should hit 3rd? Huh, I always assumed that the best hitter should be hitting first and the only reason they never do is the same reason that a bunch of other stupid things happen in baseball. I assumed that the extra 20-30 ABs over the course of the season would more than make up for any sort of advantage of hitting with guys on more often.

EDIT: I meant PAs not ABs.

RedBean · #6 09-27-2007, 11:35 PM

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BP demonstrated that the best hitter should hit 3rd? Huh, I always assumed that the best hitter should be hitting first and the only reason they never do is the same reason that a bunch of other stupid things happen in baseball.

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One it's own, that's right, but also factoring in that you want your worst hitter as far away in the lineup as possible...ie the Pitcher....then to hit the top guy leadoff, you'd need to bat the pitcher 6th.

All things considered, the 3rd/8th spots for best/worst are a better tradeoff than 1st/6th.

vhawk01 · #7 09-27-2007, 11:47 PM

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[ QUOTE ]

BP demonstrated that the best hitter should hit 3rd? Huh, I always assumed that the best hitter should be hitting first and the only reason they never do is the same reason that a bunch of other stupid things happen in baseball.

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One it's own, that's right, but also factoring in that you want your worst hitter as far away in the lineup as possible...ie the Pitcher....then to hit the top guy leadoff, you'd need to bat the pitcher 6th.

All things considered, the 3rd/8th spots for best/worst are a better tradeoff than 1st/6th.

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Ah, I see. Thats cool.

THAY3R · #8 09-27-2007, 07:47 PM

Micah Owings was an awesome hitter in college, so I guess it is possible for him to not be the worst hitter in his lineup every now and then.

MuresanForMVP · #9 09-27-2007, 07:52 PM

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Micah Owings was an awesome hitter in college, so I guess it is possible for him to not be the worst hitter in his lineup every now and then.

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I'm still fairly shocked he was drafted as a pitcher. I heard that scouts weren't convinced of him having a wood bat swing, but jesus he's doing a hell of a job proving that wrong.

kyleb · #10 09-27-2007, 07:54 PM

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Micah Owings was an awesome hitter in college, so I guess it is possible for him to not be the worst hitter in his lineup every now and then.

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I'm still fairly shocked he was drafted as a pitcher. I heard that scouts weren't convinced of him having a wood bat swing, but jesus he's doing a hell of a job proving that wrong.

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Yeah, occasionally kids with metal bat / high school swings can do pretty well. There's never a question about power, but the ability to hit for average. Garrett Atkins is a good example of this.