6max: How to bet draws

XST · #1 09-29-2007, 06:12 AM

Can someone please give me the run down on betting draws aggressively because my timing with it really sucks. Should I do it on villain's with a high agression factor? What type of boards should I look for? etc..

Here is a situation with a 14/12/3 villain. Would it be better to just call behind. Don't ask me what I was doing calling the pfr here because I was steaming at the time :P.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($24.80)
BB ($33)
UTG ($25.45)
MP ($14.65)
CO ($31.60)
Hero ($27.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 2 folds.

Flop: ($1.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $13, Hero.....

tannenj · #2 09-29-2007, 06:22 AM

nothing wrong whatsoever with calling the pfr.

i tend to call the flop bet. raising to $3 is fine (i'd rather make it a little bigger); now that he's reraised, you have to fold.

Gelford · #3 09-29-2007, 06:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
nothing wrong whatsoever with calling the pfr.

i tend to call the flop bet. raising to $3 is fine (i'd rather make it a little bigger); now that he's reraised, you have to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

No ... now that he has reraised you push with a smile on your face, you have 45% equity vs his range and with the dead money that is enough to play for stacks FE or no FE.

That is why we charish Axs so high, when they hit a FD ... the Ace usually adds a gutshot to your FD and you can play it for stacks if need be without even worrying about FE (FE is a nice added bonus, and this statement is off course in a raised pot not a limped one, you need the dead money)

tannenj · #4 09-29-2007, 06:46 AM

range him for me please, sir ... i'm not seeing it

edit: if we assume the villain's never folding, i believe hero needs 43% equity to break even. i'm struggling to come up with a range against which hero's hand fares well enough to shove.

corsakh · #5 09-29-2007, 06:49 AM

Put a proper raise, around $4. Fold, you don't have enough equity here.

Gelford · #6 09-29-2007, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
range him for me please, sir ... i'm not seeing it

edit: if we assume the villain's never folding, i believe hero needs 43% equity to break even. i'm struggling to come up with a range against which hero's hand fares well enough to shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming that villian is never folding is imo strecthing it ... also assuming that he has no air in his range is also streching it.

Whether this range is streching it is debetable, but that none of it folds and that the range actually is so narrow I question, also I gladly put forward a sacrifice to shania even if I am 1% behind or something in that magnitude.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

54,450 games 0.005 secs 10,890,000 games/sec

Board: Qh 9h 4c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.205% 47.20% 00.00% 25703 0.00 { Ah6h }
Hand 1: 52.795% 52.80% 00.00% 28747 0.00 { QQ+, 99, AhKh, AQs, KQs, QJs, JTs, AQo, KQo, JTo }

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The JTo is representing air in his range

Still I rarely play this low and I am used to 14/12 nits being tricky !

Jamougha · #7 09-29-2007, 08:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
{ QQ+, 99, AhKh, AQs, KQs, QJs, JTs, AQo, KQo, JTo }

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an awful range. Hand like KQ and QJ are basically never going to 3-bet the flop, AQ rarely, sets very often, overpairs quite often, big draws quite often. Air/JTo is going to be incredibly rare without some metagame.

A really quite optimistic range would look like

Board: Qh 9h 4c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.364% 37.36% 00.00% 11467 0.00 { Ah6h }
Hand 1: 62.636% 62.64% 00.00% 19223 0.00 { QQ+, 99, 44, AQs, KhJh, KhTh, JhTh, Th9h, 5h4h, AQo }

hero needs about 45% to get it in here.

XST · #8 09-29-2007, 08:03 AM

This is how the hand worked out. Usually I fold in this spot, but was on tilt at the time. I was looking through my PT stats and a lot of suited aces are in the red [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Maybe because of small sample size though.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($24.80)
BB ($33)
UTG ($25.45)
MP ($14.65)
CO ($31.60)
Hero ($27.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 2 folds.

Flop: ($1.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $13, Hero raises to $26.75, CO calls $13.75.

Turn: ($55.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($55.35) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $55.35

Results in white below: 
CO has Ac As (two pair, aces and fours).
Hero has 6h Ah (one pair, fours).
Outcome: CO wins $55.35.

traz · #9 09-29-2007, 03:03 PM

I typically fold here, there's never enough equity. I think at the loosest of ranges he gets about 40%

yapee · #10 09-29-2007, 04:58 PM

I believe that calling this pf is marginal to not-so good. Axs is quite overrated. You need some additional value to your hand like having a read that you'll be able to muscle the pot away from him or a multiway pot.

The flop raise should be proper obviously, not a minraise.

I don't believe Hero has equity to shove. The { QQ+, 99, AhKh, AQs, KQs, QJs, JTs, AQo, KQo, JTo } range is quite optimistic, and Hero's FE is zero, so the money odds are 23-29 which is something like 1-1.25.