Would you fold here?

ntnBO · #1 10-18-2007, 07:20 PM

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP3 caps, Hero ????

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Button folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 3-bets, CO folds, Hero ?????

BO

euroglot · #2 10-18-2007, 07:27 PM

I don't fold hand 1.

Hand 2 I bet or checkraise the flop. As played....depends on your reads, I think I call down.

Man of Means · #3 10-18-2007, 07:34 PM

Hand 1, god no, don't fold. Most of the time you're looking at another AK. Sometimes KQ, sometimes two spades, occasionally a "preflop slowplayed" AA/KK.

Hand 2, your turn check is not guaranteed to generate a bet, and you don't know where it will come from. Bet/3bet flop for value and go from there, usually seeing a showdown.
You could've also checkraised the flop since top&bottom two pair is usually only going to get worse on the turn and river.

The hand plays out differently once you've represented a strong hand on the flop. As played, call down is OK (you have outs if he's got a str8 and the pot is large anyway) though I imagine this is 87 quite often.

One Outer · #4 10-18-2007, 07:39 PM

Hand 1: Never fold here. Folding here heads up is

You're ahead the majority of the time here. Once in a while you are going to see AA but that looks like AK-KT spades to me. You're only in trouble against A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and AA, so you can't fold. Ever. Please don't do that.

Hand 2: If you're going to check you have to checkraise. I would bet this out and here's why.

Your hand is almost certainly ahead, but it's very vulnerable. There is a flush draw and several straight draws out there. Also, you're easily counterfeited by a 9 (or a 6 after the turn). It sucks being OOP in this spot but I would bet out and hope that a big J raised me and shut out the others.

Checkraise creates a huge pot against several opponents with a vulnerable hand. You're filming your own Bad Idea Jeans commercial here; you want to cut the field. Another thing to consider is the flop texture. On this flop someone will always pay you. Always. It just hits too many hands. So the bet is to try and protect and for value.

Wow. I think I rambled there a little bit. That make sense to anyone?

TheCount212 · #5 10-18-2007, 07:49 PM

i didn't read what u typed yet, but i love this picture. the only thing better would be if u have a pic from that commercial where the chimps are lighting their cigars with hundred dollar bills LOL

Grease · #6 10-18-2007, 08:03 PM

Nope.

Never.

Not ever. Folding for one more bet after you raise or 3-bet on the small street is a really terrible idea.

Call, and see what happens.

BubbleMint · #7 10-18-2007, 08:12 PM

Hand 1, I go into call down mode.
If I imporve on the turn and it is checked through then checked again on river I bet. Lots of ifs there though.

Hand 2, check raise the field on the flop, bet the turn. This lets us know where we are far more than the line taken.

As is, a call down is not terrible, villain has no reason to think his Jx is behind, but also I am not suprised to see 78 or J9.

Grease · #8 10-18-2007, 08:33 PM

I didn't see hand number 2.

C/C/ing the flop there is pretty bad. I probably just lead there, as I lead with lots of things like that. Since you didn't, they lobbed it up for you to make a great C/R. Pump the pot, your hand is good, but it's vulnerable.

I call the turn and C/C the river UI in hand 2.

James. · #9 10-18-2007, 09:26 PM

hand 1 you see 77 or 55 alot, but the pot is big and we are still ahead of an overplayed KQ or [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] draw. i like your bet/3bet. it builds the pot and protects your hand. after he caps the flop i showdown alot, but not always(depends on alot of factors). if it's my first hand or orbit at the table and/or villain is unknown i call down hating life.

hand 2 is a very standard flop bet. don't c/r. don't c/c. you bet, plain and simple. this is one of those situations that you root for Ax, Kx, Qx to call with their 3outers because you make a ton of money off of them when they make that mistake.

Xhad · #10 10-18-2007, 11:24 PM

Hand 1

[ QUOTE ]
you see 77 or 55 alot, but the pot is big and we are still ahead of an overplayed KQ or [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] draw. i like your bet/3bet. it builds the pot and protects your hand. after he caps the flop i showdown alot, but not always(depends on alot of factors). if it's my first hand or orbit at the table and/or villain is unknown i call down hating life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2 I'm gonna go against the grain and say the flop check is fine as this flop almost always gets bet anyway. But you really need to raise after it gets bet.