PLO 100 - raising with Aces in early position

[Elrazor]

Is is always correct to raise pre flop with AAxx in early position in a full ring game?? i use this hand as an example of how in this instance raising got me into trouble

i even considered checking this turn hoping i could repot as there were so many scare cards and i wouldnt have a clue if i was still ahead if any of them fell. Does anyoen else thing going for a C/R on this turn is a bad idea??

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $3.5</font>, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($15.5, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $10</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($35.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $35.5</font>, CO calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($106.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO is all-in $36</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $178.5

[Full-Metall]

perfect.

[jocelyn1985]

Umm probably make it like $12 on the flop, especially since there are still a lot of players. The check-call on the river is fine since it widens your opponents range since he may take a stab with 8-9-x-x. You could make a case for limp-raising pre-flop if it's a pretty aggressive table, but as played it's fine.

[RoundTower]

I would just shove the river, he will probably call more often than he will bluff. I would not cr the turn without a good read on the guy.

[Elrazor]

He had 89QJ so there was never going to be a fold from him regardless. the river was obviously an attempt to get him to bluff if he had KQJX but as played dont think there was anything i could have done to avoid stacking off

[stefluv1104]

Okay fist off how you play AA in a ring game should be dependant on the feel of the table, if you have AA in early position and you know some guy in mid position preflop raises 20% preflop hands and the two guys in late position tend to always call late pricing in the BB, I'd strongly suggest going for a check raise there then leading flop. If it's a tight nit wit table then go ahead and pot raise like you did to add pot value. Where I think you misplayed the hand was on the flop. Unless you yourself is a Nit that only raises pre with AA (don't be that guy) I would check raise the flop (since CO would probably lead out or any 10 10 or AT with a gut from late) giving him an All in situation on turn so you don't give him implied odds on his turn call making it essentially correct since he was getting better then 1/4 on a 34% draw (4ks, 4 6s, 3 8s, 39s, 3js 17 outs). From what it seems he would call the 60ish turn bet regardless but it would not be your problem and you'd just have to shake it off instead of spewing a river bluff call.

[slowhand5]

I'm really not a big fan of raising aces in early pos in a 6-max game and I think to do it in a full handed game is really pretty sucidal. I would only do it if you had a monster aces hand like A-A-J-10 double suited or similar and obvisouly with 3 calls from behind this is a decently loose game. Unless youve really shown a wide raising range to these guys its likely they've put you on aces (whether thats smart or not). If you miss you open your self up to getting raised by two pair or the draw and even if you hit the ace the action might dry up.

In this case you hit your ace and the other guy hit a big draw. I disagree with stefluv that a check-raise on this flop is your best play. In fact I think that would be your worse possible play at this point. If he has a set he'll re-raise you and the money gets in anyway. If you check-raise when he bets his set on the flop you give him the small chance of making the hero fold b/c its possible to put you on a set of aces here (pfr, with massive check raise on flop). If he just has two pair he might meekly call you down which is just fine, you really dont want to raise him off that hand. I also doubt that he really makes a bet on the flop with a small draw with 3 to act in front of him. He might make it there with the 17 outer but do you really want to try and get all your money in on the flop against a hand thats only a slight dog? Bet the pot on the flop.

Check raising the turn? Might work but more often than not just keep betting. He could be paying you off with a set or two pair and you make him pay full price on weak draw like the open ended straight.

You got unlucky here but I really dont see a better way to play it. The pre-flop raise with aces is debatable but it worked out great for you when you hit your ace. Keeping it simple is the way to go in omaha, fancy check raises will just get you in trouble.

[stefluv1104]

hmm +1,089$ with aces since 6/10 on .5/1 and 1/2, I'm pretty sur the check raise on the flop is the best play. And so what if you get a lower set to fold. You don't have to have 2 Buy In pots EVERY hand. Hope to see this slowhand guy on the tables

[iggymcfly]

First off, no you don't have to raise AAxx in EP every time. I almost never do in a FR game. It telegraphs your hand and doesn't necessarily make the pot bigger as if there are multiple limps and then a raise, the pot would be a lot bigger than if you just raised upfront and got called.

This is a terrible example of raising with AAxx "getting you in trouble" though. You got most of your money in very good and the only reason that CO even had money left was that you failed to bet the whole pot on the flop. I think betting 2/3 pot here actually looks more suspicious anyway so just hit the pot hard and get as many chips in as you can. Oh, I'd push the river too. You get called by two pair or a lower set more often than you induce a bluff.

[Elrazor]

Thanks for all the replies on this thread is has given me some scenarios to consider in future. i think the concensus is the only thing i could do differently was pot the flop, although i dont believe it would have altered the outcome it may have.

As a footnote my reasoning behind not potting the flop is the Crypto games are typically quite nitty, and fairly passive post flop, so even if i miss a flop completely i like to stab at it, depending on the villlan of course. i have found that people will give up just as often for 1/2 to 2/3 pot bets on the flop as they will for pot bets, so for this reason i always bet in this range even when i hit hard