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#71
11-16-2007, 02:36 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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[ QUOTE ] But its still all relative. I mean, a lot of people were perfectly ok with slavery. [/ QUOTE ] If you see moral relativism as a slippery slope to sadism, you merely reveal yourself as scum. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] I'd hazard a guess what you're getting at is that they're picturing what they themselves would do but for the restraints of moral absolutes. But this goes wrong in two ways. First, it ignores the fact that people also observe what others do. Second, by applying the perjorative label "scum" you're still assuming an overarching morality. 
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#72
11-16-2007, 02:40 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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A slave would not have been wrong to attempt to escape. I'm not 100% sure how you are equating a muslim woman riding in a car with an unkown man to escaping. How was she escaping? She wasn't, she was breaking the law and staying in the system. How does that help anything? No escaping being done. Amount of escaping = 0. [/ QUOTE ] The whole point here is that you said [ QUOTE ] That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it. [/ QUOTE ] Which can realistically only be interpreted as you believing that the rule of law is good for its own sake. That is what was the most objectionable part. The rest of your post is weak fluff trying to cover up the fact that you clearly wouldn't (and very few people would) condemn a person to live under an extremely repressive situation, and yet meanwhile you act as if its black and white, ie "the law is the law".
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#73
11-16-2007, 02:45 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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[ QUOTE ] Whatever happened to the president's plan to get us less dependent on oil? [/ QUOTE ] He decided he'd rather be a whore for Saudi Arabia apparently. By all accounts that I've read, the Bush family, including dubya, is tight with the Saudi royal family. I find that disgraceful. I'm sick of the U.S. standing behind regimes like the Saudi's have. To others, as far as being Saudi law so what? That doesn't make the Saudi's any more desirable as an ally. [/ QUOTE ] OMG, Bush have been in office for almost 7 years and he havent yet been able to come up with a satisfactory alternative energy source that can compensate for the energy the US get from imported oil??? Lol, he must be so dumb.
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#74
11-16-2007, 03:06 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it. [/ QUOTE ] Slave from the 1840s: Man slavery sucks, we need to get rid of it. Taso: Yeah, you should tell your congressmen to outlaw it Slave: I don't have a congressman, slaves can't vote Taso: Damn, that sucks, you should totally write a letter to a newspaper talking about how [censored] slavery is Slave: Umm, dude, my master forbids us to read and write, and beats us if we try to learn. Taso: Damn that really sucks, you should move somewhere that slavery isn't allowed. Slave: To do that I would have to break the law, slaves aren't allowed to run away + the closest places without slavery have fugitive slave laws where the citizens there are required to return us. Taso: Damn, that sucks, well keep on keeping on man, just don't break these unjust laws, try working within the system that set up these laws and one day, hopefully your grandchildren won't be slaves. [/ QUOTE ] EXACTLY the point he was making! Am I wrong? I thought it was pretty clear he was alluding to all of those statist "if you don't like taxation, work within the system to change it" arguments we see here in every other thread. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, he's just making that argument. And in a situation in which it is even more absurd.
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#75
11-16-2007, 03:31 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it. [/ QUOTE ] Slave from the 1840s: Man slavery sucks, we need to get rid of it. Taso: Yeah, you should tell your congressmen to outlaw it Slave: I don't have a congressman, slaves can't vote Taso: Damn, that sucks, you should totally write a letter to a newspaper talking about how [censored] slavery is Slave: Umm, dude, my master forbids us to read and write, and beats us if we try to learn. Taso: Damn that really sucks, you should move somewhere that slavery isn't allowed. Slave: To do that I would have to break the law, slaves aren't allowed to run away + the closest places without slavery have fugitive slave laws where the citizens there are required to return us. Taso: Damn, that sucks, well keep on keeping on man, just don't break these unjust laws, try working within the system that set up these laws and one day, hopefully your grandchildren won't be slaves. [/ QUOTE ] EXACTLY the point he was making! Am I wrong? I thought it was pretty clear he was alluding to all of those statist "if you don't like taxation, work within the system to change it" arguments we see here in every other thread. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, he's just making that argument. And in a situation in which it is even more absurd. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I figured that out from his later posts. I saw levels that didn't exist. :|
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#76
11-16-2007, 03:34 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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[ QUOTE ] A slave would not have been wrong to attempt to escape. I'm not 100% sure how you are equating a muslim woman riding in a car with an unkown man to escaping. How was she escaping? She wasn't, she was breaking the law and staying in the system. How does that help anything? No escaping being done. Amount of escaping = 0. [/ QUOTE ] The whole point here is that you said [ QUOTE ] That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it. [/ QUOTE ] Which can realistically only be interpreted as you believing that the rule of law is good for its own sake. That is what was the most objectionable part. The rest of your post is weak fluff trying to cover up the fact that you clearly wouldn't (and very few people would) condemn a person to live under an extremely repressive situation, and yet meanwhile you act as if its black and white, ie "the law is the law". [/ QUOTE ] I don't know why I'm not coming off clearly here. She lives there, she has to follow the law of the land. The slave is trying to escape to get away from the society that makes laws against him. The woman wasn't trying to get away from the society, she was just breaking their laws.
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#77
11-16-2007, 03:35 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it. [/ QUOTE ] Slave from the 1840s: Man slavery sucks, we need to get rid of it. Taso: Yeah, you should tell your congressmen to outlaw it Slave: I don't have a congressman, slaves can't vote Taso: Damn, that sucks, you should totally write a letter to a newspaper talking about how [censored] slavery is Slave: Umm, dude, my master forbids us to read and write, and beats us if we try to learn. Taso: Damn that really sucks, you should move somewhere that slavery isn't allowed. Slave: To do that I would have to break the law, slaves aren't allowed to run away + the closest places without slavery have fugitive slave laws where the citizens there are required to return us. Taso: Damn, that sucks, well keep on keeping on man, just don't break these unjust laws, try working within the system that set up these laws and one day, hopefully your grandchildren won't be slaves. [/ QUOTE ] EXACTLY the point he was making! Am I wrong? I thought it was pretty clear he was alluding to all of those statist "if you don't like taxation, work within the system to change it" arguments we see here in every other thread. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, he's just making that argument. And in a situation in which it is even more absurd. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I figured that out from his later posts. I saw levels that didn't exist. :| [/ QUOTE ] (I have no idea if I'm the subject of any of the above posts, due to the use of "he" "his" and "he's" )
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#78
11-16-2007, 03:38 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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The woman wasn't trying to get away from the society, she was just breaking their laws. [/ QUOTE ] Women in Saudi-Arabia has about 0% chance of changing the system. For a woman in Saudi-Arabia to get out of the country without assistance from a close male family menber is also very hard. A woman is not allowed to leave her home unexcorted by a close family member, her trying to leave the country would probably lead to an even harsher punishment.
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#79
11-16-2007, 10:53 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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[ QUOTE ] The woman wasn't trying to get away from the society, she was just breaking their laws. [/ QUOTE ] Women in Saudi-Arabia has about 0% chance of changing the system. For a woman in Saudi-Arabia to get out of the country without assistance from a close male family menber is also very hard. A woman is not allowed to leave her home unexcorted by a close family member, her trying to leave the country would probably lead to an even harsher punishment. [/ QUOTE ] Hell, they doubled her sentence just for pleading for justice. If she even thought about living somewhere where she wasn't oppressed they'd probably lop off one of her hands.
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#80
11-16-2007, 10:58 AM
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Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
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Don't we have wonderful allies? [/ QUOTE ] I really despise those European allies who gave secret nuclear info to Khan so he could run back to Pakistan and build a bomb. Bastards!
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