Calldown?

[gaming_mouse]

Villain is your typical decent 30 LAG TAG. Online. He opens on the button 6 handed, SB folds, and I defend Q7o in the BB.

AA7r

I c/r, he calls.

6 (still rainbow)

I bet and he raises.

Do you always cd here?

[gaming_mouse]

Also: Same question but he waits till the river to raise. FWIW, I think this case is a fold.

[jstill]

do we have to cr the flop?

I think both cases as played are probably folds, definitely the latter

[TheWunderkind]

Am i bad for almost always folding this vs a typical LAGTAG?

[TheWunderkind]

[ QUOTE ]
do we have to cr the flop?



[/ QUOTE ]

curious about that too

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
do we have to cr the flop?


[/ QUOTE ]

ya, i think we do, unless we think our opponent is firing again when behind us, which he we shouldn't if he is decent.

I suppose you could c/c, donk turn. That line might have some merit against an opponent who was likely to bluff raise in that spot bc he read you as having a 7 (or other pair) that was protecting against a freecard.

[jstill]

if we think he wont ever fold a better hand if we cr and bet(easy assumption), or bet a worse hand for us on the turn if we ck call the flop why cant we just ck call the flop and ck fold the turn keeping the pot small? and if he bets too much ie more than is optimal even in obvious spots like this (ie he ll second barrel worse hands so often wed like to let him) isnt ck calling still best then?

I dont think we can say we have an equity edge against the range of hands that put more bets into this pot vs a cr and we re bloating the pot with a weakish hand OOP (esp worse if we feel compelled to showdown vs further aggression ), are folding out 6 outters worth it if he ll ck behind and call a bet with K hi if we stay passive? what makes cr'ing best I guess is my basic question.

I thikn cr'ing has alot more merit in these spots (we have a marginal made hand) when theres a fd on the flop as we get looked up a lot lighter. Here tho I think his range stays the same either way mostly that callsdown (maybe K or Q hi look us up more then), and I think we re ahead enough to peel a street or two but not to be raising for value or some kidn of protection in a small HU pot.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
if we think he wont ever fold a better hand if we cr and bet(easy assumption), or bet a worse hand for us on the turn if we ck call the flop why cant we just ck call the flop and ck fold the turn keeping the pot small?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, that line is great when we are behind. What about when he takes a freecard with a 6 outer we are ahead of (the majority of his range)?

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think we can say we have an equity edge against the range of hands that put more bets into this pot vs a cr and we re bloating the pot with a weakish hand OOP (esp worse if we feel compelled to showdown vs further aggression ), are folding out 6 outters worth it if he ll ck behind and call a bet with K hi if we stay passive?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we knew that for sure, that might change things, but that's a specific read I didn't have.

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what makes cr'ing best I guess is my basic question.

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protect our hand and get some more money on the flop. Basically the assumption is that, with 6 outers, he either folds immediately to the c/r or folds the turn UI.

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but not to be raising for value or some kidn of protection in a small HU pot.

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After his flop bet, we have a 5.5 SB in the pot. If we plan to call the flop and check the turn, we give him 2 free cards in a 6 SB pot, which is worth almost 1.5 SBs.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
do we have to cr the flop?

I think both cases as played are probably folds, definitely the latter

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This is what I think. If we know exactly what to do if raised on the turn, then check/raising the flop is fine. If we dont know what to do if raised on the turn then I'm not check/raising the flop.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]

This is what I think. If we know exactly what to do if raised on the turn, then check/raising the flop is fine. If we dont know what to do if raised on the turn then I'm not check/raising the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meaning you want to know that he bluffing frequency is either high enough to easily justify a calldown, or low enough that a fold is safe?