Sicko Revisited

[xorbie]

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tolbiny,

I agree that responsiveness should be given a much higher weighting than the others (although I'm not sure whether it measures responsiveness for ALL people or just those who actually receive care - a crucal distinction). Do you agree that it isn't the only measure?

I'd say the US should probably be higher in the list obviously, but #1 is not accurate either.

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This is a good point, but what would happen if, under my imaginary "idealized" ranking system, the US came in at like 9th or 12th and ahead of maybe Canada but not UK or Norway but not Spain or something?

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I don't understand your queston. Nothing would happen, the US would be the 9th or 12th best health care in the world and I'd still want it to be better, but realistically would be pretty happy with the system we have.

[vhawk01]

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tolbiny,

I agree that responsiveness should be given a much higher weighting than the others (although I'm not sure whether it measures responsiveness for ALL people or just those who actually receive care - a crucal distinction). Do you agree that it isn't the only measure?

I'd say the US should probably be higher in the list obviously, but #1 is not accurate either.

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This is a good point, but what would happen if, under my imaginary "idealized" ranking system, the US came in at like 9th or 12th and ahead of maybe Canada but not UK or Norway but not Spain or something?

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I don't understand your queston. Nothing would happen, the US would be the 9th or 12th best health care in the world and I'd still want it to be better, but realistically would be pretty happy with the system we have.

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Right. Thats basically my point. I was agreeing with you that the criticisms the previous poster was making wouldnt vault the US up to #1, but that that isnt necessary. If the US was #9 or something like that, it would be DISASTROUS for those supporting universal health care. Their strongest argument is that we spend so much on healthcare and yet we are practically a third world country or something like that, and look at all these socialized health care countries that are kicking our ass. If we were ranked just ok, and we were better than some socialized countries and worse than some others, this would become a far less powerful point. Then people would be forced to argue about the concept on its own merits.

[Bedreviter]

One good thing about the American health care system is its top level expertise. Sure Norway has universal health care and a pretty good system, but its not perfect either. There are occasions where the norwegian Hospitals are unable to help a patient and have that patient sent to a top notch American hospital for crucial treatment.

Whats even worse is when Norwegian patients are told there are nothing more the doctors can do for them, then on their own initiative travel to the US, get life enhancing or even life-saving treatment and end up having to pay for it themselves.

[Kaj]

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One good thing about the American health care system is its top level expertise. Sure Norway has universal health care and a pretty good system, but its not perfect either. There are occasions where the norwegian Hospitals are unable to help a patient and have that patient sent to a top notch American hospital for crucial treatment.

Whats even worse is when Norwegian patients are told there are nothing more the doctors can do for them, then on their own initiative travel to the US, get life enhancing or even life-saving treatment and end up having to pay for it themselves.

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I think such a condition is at least partly (and probably mostly) due to America's vast resources, large population, and wealth, and has less to do with whether we have a national health plan or not. If we had some national insurance, we still have the largest economy to draw from and presumably should have more resources to provide specialized service compared to a small nation like Norway. But such comparisons as you make are too often repeated in this debate. As if a country of less than half the population of NY City should be expected to have every imaginable specialized treatment as readily available as the arguably richest nation on earth with a population of 300 million people.

[Bedreviter]

Of course the US has a huge advantage because ot its huge population and big economy. The fact that the Us consistently have been a front runner in innvoation is also important.

But still, citizens of Norway are supposed to get free medical help from their government. But some Norwegians are being told by their doctors that there is nothing left to do, that they are a lost cause, and that they have to accept that they have to live in pain or accept that their illness is untreatable. When they as a last resort go to the US and actually receive treatment that proves the Norwegian doctors wrong, they should be entitled to have that covered by the Norwegian government. Im just pointing out a flaw in the Norwegian system, nothing more.

[tame_deuces]

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Of course you feel that way, that's how your teachers trained you to think.

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Noone is free from influence, no matter what society you live in. Your 'argument' invalidates all human opinion, and thus itself. And paradoxes make for bad arguments.

[MarkD]

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Of course you feel that way, that's how your teachers trained you to think.

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That's certainly possible. It's just as possible that American's feel private healthcare is better because you were told to believe that. I certainly won't deny the power of propaganada.

But, logically my believe is that healtcare is a basic human right and should be available to everyone.

[MarkD]

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I find the idea of paying to go to a doctor to be ludicrous

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Everyone pays to go to the doctor.

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I know you are being facetious but whatever. You are wrong though.

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the idea of the government forcing you to pay for other people's healthcare who probably don't take care of themselves to be extremely disturbing if not a little wierd.

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fyp

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Helping people less fortunate then myself doesn't strike me as such a bad thing. I guess that's weird.

[BCPVP]

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I find the idea of paying to go to a doctor to be ludicrous

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Does this only apply to doctors or should it apply to people who grow food, build homes, and pipe in water as well?

[Money2Burn]

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I know you are being facetious but whatever. You are wrong though.


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How am I wrong?

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Helping people less fortunate then myself doesn't strike me as such a bad thing. I guess that's weird.


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I agree, but that isn't what I'm talking about and paying for healthcare through taxation isn't even close to anything I would consider as a benevolent act do you disagree?