Getting Killed in Vegas 2/4 Games and Can't Find a Way Out

[Frond]

Also like Kit said, you are going to have to open up your starting hand range more. More pairs. Mpore suited Aces and suited connectors in position.

[fishyak]

I've played LV profitably last 3 years, 2-5 trips per year, LLHE 2/4-4/8.

1) Another vote for SSHE. Early on, I made a business card size "cheat sheet" to remind me of PF do's and don'ts. It's auto pilot now.

2) For LLHE, IMO, you are in the wrong casinos. MGM, Bally's, and Excal offer much softer settings. Your locations tends to have far more locals. Search out the drunk passive tourist meat.

3) SSHE will let you play more hands PF, properly, and get you more action. Importantly, it will show you when to be aggressive in both pre and post flop. That is where the $ is.

4) Yes, variance is *itch, but in the long run, raising premium hands PF, hitting TPTK, and pounding away from there is very profitable in these games. ABC poker, NOTHING special.

5) Keep an Excel spreadsheet of your results, separated by game and casino.

Give these 90 days and let us know how you are doing.

[banzi]

Okay will do. I'm off to go buy the book.

[BubbleMint]

[ QUOTE ]
No what I meant is that you said I played the hand poorly, which implies he played it well.

[/ QUOTE ]

You played the turn and river poorly, that is not to say your opponent played well. They are acts exclusive of each other. FWIW your opponent played badly too.

In small stakes games in 99.9% of situtaions betting/raising is always correct, slowplaying is very rarely an option. As demonstrated in your hand example, people play very poorly.
Trying to decieve these opponents is akin to Lance Burton doing close up magic for Stevie Wonder, it is lost on somebody who cant see it.

As many other have said, buy SSHE, I know you said you was going to, but just in case you forgot, it really is fundamental to gaining an edge in these games.

Also as soon as you are comfortable doing so, both mentally and financially, move up to 3/6 where the rake and tips will have a smaller effect on your bottom line.

Also take not that variance is a b*tch and live it can take forever to actch up. I am a winning player online in full ring and short ring games, but my last trip to Vegas I got absolutely brutalised. A little was not adjusting to the games in front of me but variance played a wicked part too.

Good luck at the tables !!

[Man of Means]

Yes you can beat a loose passive 2/4 game, the rake is brutal but generally if you play a tight aggressive style the rake impact is minimized because (a) you play fewer pots and (b) your pots are bigger. Move up to 3/6 or 4/8 as soon as you feel comfortable with "how to play".

The valuable hands are all pocket pairs, any two suited broadways (QTs, etc), suited connectors down to 65s (play < 98s in late position only), AK, AQ, AJ, and KQ offsuit. Other hands can be added in late position including suited aces, suited kings, and offsuit little broadways, weaker suited gappers (T8s, 53s, Q9s)

You need to play somewhat looser than "premium hands" because there are profitable opportunities to exploit loose passive play. For example you should be playing any two suited (yes, 72s) in the small blind when 4 or more limpers are in. When you flop a flush draw (yes, any flush draw) you should be figuring out how to trap everyone for multiple bets.
When you're on the button and you've flopped top pair, everyone checks to you, you're probably going to be betting every street for value. Yes, if you have K5s, the flop is KQ3, and no one is betting, you should bet the whole way unless it's like KQ3TJ at the river.
You'll figure out when to moderate your newfound looseness and aggression but try it (after reading Small Stakes Hold'em) and report back with some sample hand postings.

[jesse8888]

[ QUOTE ]
No what I meant is that you said I played the hand poorly, which implies he played it well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This hurts my brain. While each pot is a zero sum game, the "goodness" with which you play it is not. If me and Kit played a hand and I donked it up badly, that in and of itself does not mean he played it well.

[banzi]

So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.

I still don't think I played that hand as badly as you all make out. Yes, I lost. Yes, it cost me but it's not like I checked the damn thing to the river.

[MitchL]

[ QUOTE ]
So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.

I still don't think I played that hand as badly as you all make out. Yes, I lost. Yes, it cost me but it's not like I checked the damn thing to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is obvious to respected posters in this thread that:
a. You dont understand basic gambling and poker-related concepts.

and

b. That you played the example hand poorly.

You can disagree, but people who play higher and have more experience seem to think you are wrong. If you want advice great, but it seems to me like you either want pity for your bad luck or you are already expert (miles ahead of us) and we would only hold you back.

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.



[/ QUOTE ]

Slow down.

-McGee

[banzi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.

I still don't think I played that hand as badly as you all make out. Yes, I lost. Yes, it cost me but it's not like I checked the damn thing to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is obvious to respected posters in this thread that:
a. You dont understand basic gambling and poker-related concepts.

and

b. That you played the example hand poorly.

You can disagree, but people who play higher and have more experience seem to think you are wrong. If you want advice great, but it seems to me like you either want pity for your bad luck or you are already expert (miles ahead of us) and we would only hold you back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay - flame me if you want. I can take it, because of course everyone here is a winner 100% of the time. I am being honest and saying I need help, and you flame me. Fine.

I am saying that some people are making out that I played that hand so badly that it defied belief - I know I played it badly, I have tried to expand on the situation but if you are really that damn good you will know that every hand is not cut in black and white, right?

I am asking for help and taking that advice and using it. I am not asking for flames nor posts stroking your own e-peen because you think I do not understand odds, outs, implied odds, ev and so on. I'm not a complete beginner and I've done well in various casino games and tournaments in the UK for a long time. The major difference in Europe is the stakes (pot limit as opposed to Limit) and most of all the players - Vegas is pretty wild when you live here.

I'm not used to limit and it's hit me square between the eyes. I'm humble enough to admit that and you flame me. GG I guess. I bow down to your superior knowledge. /sigh